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Forums - Microsoft - And then there was (Xbox) One - How Xbox plans to change Television forever

kitler53 said:
disolitude said:
kitler53 said:
if underlined is true MS really failed to communicate that point because the official statements i've seen xbone requires you to already have a television provider. ..and as this blog states "long term goal" i don't see how MS gets around that same fight with television providers everyone else is failing to break though.

Television providers control the most content so they have to be part of Xbox one. Microsoft is looking to position the Xbox one as a content management and consumption solution and not as the new IP based cable provider. The cable companies really have no other option but be a part of this.

Think of it this way...

People already spend more hours consuming content than gaming on the Xbox. Cable is a source of content but its no longer the only source. Netflix, Hulu and countless other streaming services are jumping over the cable wall and providing content to people in their homes. Rather than have this constant struggle between cable content vs internet content, Xbox One is looking to make content discovery seamless to a user. They will just watch their TV and won't have a slightest idea where the video they are watchig is coming from. Could be a Youtube clip, could be live right now on CBS...it will all be Television.

If this is a success you will see a radical shift in how TV business works. Cable companies will always have their funded shows which they control, however many sitcoms which get rejected, cancelled or don't get the benefit of the doubt from the cable guys, can turn to Xbox and their content "app store" for exposure. People will watch what they like, not whats on TV...

I doubt any of this stuff will be available at launch or even within the first year. It will take time for sure to figure out how to merge various sources of content in to 1 seamless viewing experience. But its absolutely the future of Television.

what i don't get is where, other than in this blog's opinion, has MS shown anything close to what is being described in this blog or in your post.  if you have a link please share because the xbone reveal and the media since has not shown this functionality.  i haven't even seen a "this is where we want to go" statement from MS. 

they seem far more focused on adding extra content to the show you are watching.  buy movie tix, display triva facts.  nfl stats/fantasy stats.  interactive tv.

They did actually touch on it, but I don't believe with the programming guide.  However, if you look at the patents they have received, it is the direction they are likely going.

Although I kept a good eye on the patents, I didn't really follow the TV related ones since they appeared to be MediaRoom features.  However, that said, Microsoft appears to be working hard behind the scenes on something big TV related.  The programming guide is a simple step, but it looks like you'll have greater integration between services and even more advanced stuff like in-video searching.  So, for the latter say "Where she says 'I'll have what she's having'" and it'll take you to that scene in that movie.*

* Ten points if you know that movie and scene.



 



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kitler53 said:
disolitude said:
..

Youre right...Microsoft didnt openly say this. This article is written with an assumption that Xbox One is geared towards becoming "The One" and it voices the concerns that cable companies are dealing with when going digital. The writer writes for Brightcove which is one of the largest online video content distribution platforms and probably has his own agenda and knowledge of this matter...

So essentially Microsoft may not do any of this at all. However Microsoft should know the issues and concerns with bringing cable to digital and the shortcomings of other services provided. None of the current IP TV solutions behave like TV people are used to and love. They all behave like PCs and browsers playing TV shows and movies...Microsoft has all the tools to change that. 

If this becomes the focus for Microsoft, it will not happen and be great overnight. When Xbox launches it is quite possible that a search like "Xbox watch funny videos" will not generate any results. However with Kinect, Bing listening and recording user data, and if other users keep searching similar things...a year later Xbox One can learn to show funny videos when someone searches with that phrase.  


..well i'm no expert by you listed a bunch of issues with apple TV and google tv a couple of posts back.  it's my understanding that apple/google don't want it to behave like that but that the content providers are blocking it from happening.  kind of like how i can watch full episodes of the daily show on my PC but it is blocked on iphone/ipad/andriod and i'll assume windows phone too.

anyways, what you've layed out there is something i would actually want unlike what MS has presented so far.  i'm just not sure MS has any better chance of succeeding when the content providers are afraid of digital.   i dunno, maybe MS can pull an apple/itunes moment but it took forever for the music industry to change.  and right now the tv industry is in now where near as bad shape as the music industry was so they have less motivation to change.

 

edit:  actually, you said it far better than i did/can.  

Working for an online department of a large cable company ive been able to see the disconnect between cable TV and online video consumption first hand.  Both have a different monetization model and they often clash in terms of interests and frankly, its very hard to move forward with technology and not step on someones toes. And with all that happening behind the scenes, users are stuck in the middle...

I will comment on the last part...

The difference between what Microsoft is doing and what everyone esle is doing is this:

Apple, Google, Rokku...they all want cable to become IP based. Their offerings are all primarily IP based, with live TV inserted on the side. This does not work for cable companies for several reasons. Online advertising revenue model and TV are drastically different. There tools are totally different, people who do those jobs don't have the same skillsets, technology to deliver videos and stich ads is different... Most cable companies don't have the rights to show the new episode or sports event that airs on TV more than once in the first 7 days. This doesn't work as IPTV...it needs to be linear.

This solution would be allowing cable work the same way as usual and slowly transition to IPTV. Linear stream through cable service would still be how their content is delivered through a subscription which you would have to pay for...however that would integrated with IP TV and other types of video streaming seamlessly to a user. They wouldn't see a difference between..."Xbox watch NHL Playoffs" and "Xbox watch epic fail videos"...despite the fact one is live, and coming from NBC sports channel through cable and the other is coming from IP based streaming service like Youtube.



I kind of dont get it. If Microsoft is so determined to go into television why dont they just make their own channel and productions and go from there? I am not interested in some set top box or whatever they are called. The Xbox was a games machine i thought, but all we get is television this, block that, big brother is watching.
I get the feeling they are in the wrong market for this.



disolitude said:
KHlover said:
The problem is, they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't even exist in the first place. Switching sources with the TV remote? As if anyone has a problem with that. Watching youtube during a commercial? Everyone has a smartphone and many have a tablet these days. Having to change the source again? Well, the remote is right in front of you. DVR? Already integrated in the cable boxes...

The problem isnt switching sources or using a dvr. its content discovery...

The end goal here is not for you to switch or pvr anything but for you to say..."xbox watch tech" and for relevant tech content to start playing, regardless of if its live tv, dvr tv or which app or site is hosting it in the digital world.

Do you ever get to a point where you realize that people are either incapable of seeing or just too caught-up in their own mindset of how things are to see what both the author and you are envisioning?

Some people won't get it, and others will ceasingly try to never get it.

It's about a providing a multi-sourced, single-point content delievery service where the source and delivery are ubiquitous and transparent.

You as the viewer simply ask for content.  The Xbox One serves up that content.



If xbone had an intergrated dvr feature for your cable tv, then they may be on to something. But as it stands now, what i heard was a bunch of voice activated bs, and basically switching between sources which you already do with a tv remote, ms is not adding anything compelling to the multimedia tv equation.



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disolitude said:
..

I will comment on the last part...

The difference between what Microsoft is doing and what everyone esle is doing is this:

Apple, Google, Rokku...they all want cable to become IP based. Their offerings are all primarily IP based, with live TV inserted on the side. This does not work for cable companies for several reasons. Online advertising revenue model and TV are drastically different. There tools are totally different, people who do those jobs don't have the same skillsets, technology to deliver videos and stich ads is different... Most cable companies don't have the rights to show the new episode or sports event that airs on TV more than once in the first 7 days. This doesn't work as IPTV...it needs to be linear.

This solution would be allowing cable work the same way as usual and slowly transition to IPTV. Linear stream through cable service would still be how their content is delivered through a subscription which you would have to pay for...however that would integrated with IP TV and other types of video streaming seamlessly to a user. They wouldn't see a difference between..."Xbox watch NHL Playoffs" and "Xbox watch epic fail videos"...despite the fact one is live, and coming from NBC sports channel through cable and the other is coming from IP based streaming service like Youtube.


i guess i dont' get what you mean when you say google wants to be IP based and MS doesn't.  maybe i just am not familur with google TV enought.  honestly none of this works for me.  I use rabbit ears for tv 'cause i honestly don't care about tv all that much.  if xbone needs an HDMI in i'm SoL.   ..but it will be interesting to see what this morphs into.

..i just wonder how many really cross the tv/gamer divide.  if ms makes decent grounds here i think the smartest thing they could do is spin off a much much cheaper tv only box if they want to atract non-gamers with this service.  $400 (assumed) just seems waaay too much.



Adinnieken said:
disolitude said:
KHlover said:
The problem is, they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't even exist in the first place. Switching sources with the TV remote? As if anyone has a problem with that. Watching youtube during a commercial? Everyone has a smartphone and many have a tablet these days. Having to change the source again? Well, the remote is right in front of you. DVR? Already integrated in the cable boxes...

The problem isnt switching sources or using a dvr. its content discovery...

The end goal here is not for you to switch or pvr anything but for you to say..."xbox watch tech" and for relevant tech content to start playing, regardless of if its live tv, dvr tv or which app or site is hosting it in the digital world.

Do you ever get to a point where you realize that people are either incapable of seeing or just too caught-up in their own mindset of how things are to see what both the author and you are envisioning?

Some people won't get it, and others will ceasingly try to never get it.

It's about a providing a multi-sourced, single-point content delievery service where the source and delivery are ubiquitous and transparent.

You as the viewer simply ask for content.  The Xbox One serves up that content.

To be honest I had to google this to find the movie... Is it  from "When Harry met Sally"? :)

Otherwise yeah I did expect some people not to see this...my very first post said: 

"...I do realize some of this stuff people may not be familiar with and may not understand. "

The way I see it, It is what it is and we are having a valid discussion and educating people. I was on this site arguing with guys like PSRock and VKing over 6 months ago saying that Xbox One is going to be a all in one set top box based video game console. This is because we spoke with Microsoft who were telling us that they plan a big integration with TV for the next Xbox. I was told that this idea is the craziest thing they ever and that I am smoking drugs... Back then I certanly didn't know how this is all going to work (I still dont). But more examples are starting to present themselves, and they look awesome...



Adinnieken said:
disolitude said:
KHlover said:
The problem is, they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't even exist in the first place. Switching sources with the TV remote? As if anyone has a problem with that. Watching youtube during a commercial? Everyone has a smartphone and many have a tablet these days. Having to change the source again? Well, the remote is right in front of you. DVR? Already integrated in the cable boxes...

The problem isnt switching sources or using a dvr. its content discovery...

The end goal here is not for you to switch or pvr anything but for you to say..."xbox watch tech" and for relevant tech content to start playing, regardless of if its live tv, dvr tv or which app or site is hosting it in the digital world.

Do you ever get to a point where you realize that people are either incapable of seeing or just too caught-up in their own mindset of how things are to see what both the author and you are envisioning?

Some people won't get it, and others will ceasingly try to never get it.

It's about a providing a multi-sourced, single-point content delievery service where the source and delivery are ubiquitous and transparent.

You as the viewer simply ask for content.  The Xbox One serves up that content.

I think I'm there.  Dis is more patient with people here than I am, so he's the right person to nurture a thread like this.  All I see is the usual suspects doing their thing.  MS having something disruptive just can't happen to them.

The reality, though, is that the X1 will game and game hard for us (we'll see in less than a week) but a feature like this will capture the mainstream media's attention and your average joe will be interested in it too.  My sister is not a gamer at all but her sons LUST for a new game console.  Show her this and she would be more inclined to buy one for them because she'd want to use this feature.  Granted that's extremely anectdotal, but I'd be extremely surprised if it was a minority reaction to when the mainstream catches on.

I personally wish the Wii U and PS4 had a similar feature, as it would ensure this next generation of consoles would find bigger success ...



pokoko said:
Darth Tigris said:
I'm letting this marinate and I think I'm starting to see what you're getting at here. If so, this is ambitious. Heck, it's DISRUPTIVE, seriously!

Folks, please, put away your fanboy goggles and think about the possibilities of this. This isn't what the others are attempting, and that doesn't matter. Don't fight this just because it's MS or you want to hate the X1 or because Apple, Sony and Google aren't attempting it (yet). This is about the future of technology and entertainment content provisions. This is ... everything ala carte. Movies, TV, music and ... games, ala carte. No more searching or trying to decide where to find it, just that you want it, asked and received. This is creeping toward the computer on ST:TNG.

Thanks for this, dis. It makes me feel more confident that we'll see something disruptive this gen instead of iterative. I'm actually starting to get excited even.

Uh, yeah, moving on from that.  Anyway, I don't see how this is going to be disruptive when only gamers, for the most part, are going to buy it.  If it does some things well, then it will get copied, just as it has copied some features from existing services.  The majority of people are going to go with a much lower cost alternative.

 

superchunk said:

Meanwhile Apple and Google will perfect the same service they've been slowly building up and sell it for $99, blowing MS out of water mostly due the fact that they can build of the established massive iOS and Android bases. In order for this to be truly MSs super feature (which it is a great feature I think), MS will need to put out that rumored TV only box... for cheap.

So to the OP, yes its a very awesome feature, however the delivery mechanism is going to cause it to fail for MS.

Yep, pretty much this.  We aren't going to see the average person run out and buy an XO so that they won't have to switch TV inputs.  However, they might buy a $99-$150 box that does everything the XO does--except the games, of course, which they won't care about, anyway.

Edit:  Actually, though, I think we're going to see all this integrated in with the TV itself, which would make the XO superfluous for non-gamers.

 


It is being aimed at the minstream audience for sure. The regular media has been all over the xbox one, even if the gaming media hates it. Other companies can try and copy it, but they may have patent or licensing issues. Microsoft has made some great partnerships over the years in the TV and Media world. They have an exclusive partnership for rebox instant(will most likely be the service to take down netflix, and gamefly) for home consoles, which they have also partnered with verizon(a huge cell phone, home phone, internet, and cable company) . They have a deal with pandora also right now I believe. People may be forgetting that MS started all of this with the 360, it will be hard for others to play catch up with all the deals that have to be made for this kind of stuff. With all that said, I dont think any company can provide all of those features, and voice control hardware and software for 99-150 dollars. At least we haven't seen it yet, do google or apple tv have voice controls or gesture input? Yes TV will eventually have all of this built in, but that will be down the line and will not be cost effective for most consumers who already have a TV they like.  Sony is actually at a disadvantage in this area as they also compete with other media producing companies. If I made movies I wouldn't want my compititors company to control the distribution of my media.



Nem said:
I kind of dont get it. If Microsoft is so determined to go into television why dont they just make their own channel and productions and go from there? I am not interested in some set top box or whatever they are called. The Xbox was a games machine i thought, but all we get is television this, block that, big brother is watching.
I get the feeling they are in the wrong market for this.

Microsoft has been "in" television for years.   Over 23% of the set-top box market was theirs until they sold MediaRoom to Ericcson.  They've been doing IPTV since 2001.  Many services that provide Internet-based television/movie content delivery use Microsoft software and services to do so.

They don't want to be a "Channel", though they do have a division called coincidently enough, Channel 9.  Essentially, the video production service for Microsoft.  They don't want to own the content.  They just want to build and provide a layer to access it.  That layer being software integrated into the Xbox One.

The Xbox One is still a video game machine.  Nothing added to the capabilities of the Xbox One prevent it from offering gaming services.  Your smartphone (if you have one) is still a phone, but doesn't it do more than just make phone calls?  Doesn't that extended feature set make it more useful?  You probably aren't old enough to remember or even had a black book.  Or later a Personal Data Assistant (PDA) and a mobile cell phone (aka a bag phone).  Or a Pocket PC Phone which offered the capabilities of a Pocket PC, a PDA, and a cell phone.  See, technology evolves to add features that are useful (sometimes some that aren't) to things we think are fine the way they are. 

For most people (the majority of people) the console is in the living room, family room, or media room.  A place where people congregate to do more than just play games.  Enhancing the capabilities of a device, so it is used more often, increases the importance in the use and daily lives of those people.  Anyone who had the opportunity to be in 77m homes would do what they can to position their device so that not only are the people who bought it for gaming using it, but the rest of the family has a use for it too.