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Forums - Gaming - Is the Xbox One illegal in Europe?

MS will simply introduce it in Europe, then they may end up in court. Either MS will win, or they will lose.

If they win, then nothing happens. If they lose, they make an apology, pay some trivial amount of money, and quickly introduce a patch for European X1s that puts kinect into standby, turning off video tracking, and only monitoring audio for the words 'xbox, turn kinect on' or some such.



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Damagon said:
I doubt they can do anything about it considering it's a license not and actual product. In order to resell something, first you must own it. You never own a license.

You can however, sell the physical disc, that will compleley lawful and Microsoft can't and won't stop you. Don't know what good that do though, since it's nothing but a piece of plastic without the license.

I don't think that's 100% correct. Microsoft was for example forced to accept reselling used Windows licenses in Europe - not the physical media, but the license.

But still, it's bullshit that the Xbox One is illegal in Europe. This is exactly what's gonna happen:

scottie said:
MS will simply introduce it in Europe, then they may end up in court. Either MS will win, or they will lose.

If they win, then nothing happens. If they lose, they make an apology, pay some trivial amount of money, and quickly introduce a patch for European X1s that puts kinect into standby, turning off video tracking, and only monitoring audio for the words 'xbox, turn kinect on' or some such.





Then they better region lock the console. People will buy the less-intrusive EU version if that ever happens



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

In Europe it is illegal to prevent you from selling what you own and in fact it is also illegal to prevent you using what you own.

There's no doubt that when the Xbone is out, consumer associations and some european representative will act against these practices



I have been saying this for a while. This has got to be illegal. Theres no way they will get away with this in europe.

Even the reported way to get a cut from second hand sales... it cannot be legal. They are not entitled to that money. The property isnt theirs to resell (even if the intellectual property is. But the original buyer paid for that).

Really, look at it. They are trying to sell the same disc multiple times. They are doing this by  invalidating the disc and making it a network code. This is completely ilegal. There is no way it isnt. Microsoft is insane with greed.



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kitler53 said:
i dunno about outright illegal but with their very pro-consumer court system i'll bet if a class action lawsuit were to come from the used game policy MS will lose. their policy of restricting who you can sell to and taking a percentage of your resell value is clearly anti-consumer. i don't think consumers could win in the US but i think they could in europe.

i'm thinking no legal issue with kinect could win in the courts unless MS is proved to be doing weird things with the data collected.

I don't believe it would.  DRM is not controlled by any EU directive (law).  Instead, it's controlled by International Treaty.  The 1996 World Intellectual Property Organization treaty required those who signed onto the treaty to implement legal protections for technological prevention measures (DRM).  In fact, the EU directive is more restrictive than the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in the US.

In the US, a licensee (consumer) may circumvent DRM through their own ability, however no device can be marketed for sale to do so.  In the EU, a licensee does not retain the right to circumvent DRM through any means.  So, yes.  You have the right to make a copy of the disc, but your ownership of the content is limited to the restrictions of the license for use.

EDIT:

To further explain this within the context of the July 2012 ruling, which permitted second-hand digital sales, companies may employ measures to render software unusable when the license is transfered.  Microsoft is not permitted in restricting a second-hand sale, but it doesn't restrict Microsoft from defining the means of implimenting a second-hand sale.   The point being made here is Microsoft has to provide the means to transfer the license.  If the means to transfer a license is through a specific third-party or group of third-parties, or even Microsoft itself, there is nothing limiting that.  How you do it isn't define, just that you must be able to do it.



Pretty sure Microsoft validated this little details before :)

And knowing that Sony is doing the same (even if it is the choice of the publisher, which basically means the majority of them); I'm very confident they will be no issue with that.



vfguy said:
Why would blocking used games be illegal? Isn't this what PC retail games have been doing for years?

Yeah and they have already ruled that to be illegal. It's just waiting for a class action lawsuit to change things.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2012/07/03/european-court-justice-ruling-digital-games-can-be-resold#.UaIheUp-hjk

"An author of software cannot oppose the resale of his 'used' licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet," the ruling read. The Court said the exclusive right of distribution covered by a license is "exhausted on its first sale".

Going to other way and restricting the sale of physical games is not going to be popular.



Nem said:

I have been saying this for a while. This has got to be illegal. Theres no way they will get away with this in europe.

Even the reported way to get a cut from second hand sales... it cannot be legal. They are not entitled to that money. The property isnt theirs to resell (even if the intellectual property is. But the original buyer paid for that).

Really, look at it. They are trying to sell the same disc multiple times. They are doing this by  invalidating the disc and making it a network code. This is completely ilegal. There is no way it isnt. Microsoft is insane with greed.

Um...some of what you said is absolutely not illegal.

I too question the legallity of Microsoft setting a price or cut of a second-hand sale.  However, I don't know if this would be consider collusion or not.  Microsoft is NOT fixing the price, they're merely defining the amount a third-party can receive using their system for license exchange.  On that latter part there are no laws.  None. 

The ruling in the EU that permitted second-hand sales did not define how a license transfer could take place, only that a copyright holder could deactivate a license for a particular licensee should a license transfer take place.  So if I sold my license to you, Microsoft can remotely disable my copy of the software.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/what-does-eus-used-software-sales-ruling-mean/

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2012/07/04/curia-digital-distribution/1

Until the law catches up with the ruling it'll be what we call "The Wild West".  It seems as though whatever solutions companies come up with will be legal as long as they permit a transfer of ownership.



Nem said:

I have been saying this for a while. This has got to be illegal. Theres no way they will get away with this in europe.

Even the reported way to get a cut from second hand sales... it cannot be legal. They are not entitled to that money. The property isnt theirs to resell (even if the intellectual property is. But the original buyer paid for that).

Really, look at it. They are trying to sell the same disc multiple times. They are doing this by  invalidating the disc and making it a network code. This is completely ilegal. There is no way it isnt. Microsoft is insane with greed.

yeah, i think this is real basis of a lawsuit.  the game was sold and they do no have rights to what you do afterwords.  if it were simply a "difficult to use" solution i don't think any lawsuit could win.  ..it is the shear fact that they are taking a 10% cut every time the disc is sold from now until forever that is a violation of property rights.