I love these arguments and how narrow they actually are, its not 3rd parties fault for anything, they made a LOT of games aimed at the expanded market and the expanded market bought a lot of those games, look at the games that sold a million plus. They only buy the very best?? Subjective at best because some of the best selliing games for that audience was some of the worst ive ever played personally. No they buy whats popular, and cheap its that simple.  Unless someone will argue the quality of games like Game Party.  3rd parties understood the market better than some give credit, which is why they put certain games on certain systems. 

Its strange people are still blaming 3rd parties for the woes of Wii. What were they supposed to do? Make more "core" games that would be more expensive to produce than your Just Dances and sell at a fraction of that? Nope. the expanded audience was NEVER going to be interested in those games, period. THey werent interested for years why would they all of a sudden be? ANd core gamers would just buy games and have bought games on another system(360) as they were usually the better alternative anyway. 

As for Xbone, are we talking Wii popularity? No, not even close. It wont be popular in Japan, where Wii was. Unless they price it at 300and below (they wont) its not gonna fly off the shelves. ANd people are going ot have to really take to Kinect 2 which again i doubt people are going to spend the asking price for that. IF thats all they want. It'll be good in the US and maybe UK not sure about anywhere else in the world.

@bold. Don't get me started Oni, I wasn't talking about faults, I was talking about the evolution of the product proposal. Don't get me in that mode.

What I meant is that the publishers think that the casual market will only buy junk but I believe that's an incorrect conclusion, as the collapse of the Wii is any indicator. No, many of the people who were excited about the Wii in the expanded market at first VERY QUICKLY stopped caring about it after the products like Wii Sports and other mainstream content stopped being made for it. It ended up selling more to kids with games like Mario Kart and NSMB. Sure that's part of the expanded market in a sense, but I believe the greater part of the expanded market that led to 90m+ Wiis sold is much greater than that and doesn't feed on those experiences.

As such, when the quality went down imho that market left, and quickly. In the box-office, it is pretty similar actually. There's a reason why movies like the Matrix, Iron Man and The Dark Night make the sales they make, and its that they appeal to a vast majority of folks, especially those that don't belong to a particular niche.

You're  back in the core vs casual mindset. I left that way behind me. I'm talking mainstream versus gamer (casual or dedicated).

I agree with your 3rd paragraph. If the iPad is any indicator, there is a humongous market out there.

XBox One is going for the casuals between Kinect all the TV experience.
I think they will do much better then the WIi U, but the WIi? Not sure.

Of course WE have the info, but WE are not the majority of potential customers. The targeted demographic definately were "casuals", but those people don't exactly go on forums and post their opinions => We have no idea what THEY (aka the majority of the customers) think about the Xbone => We have now idea how high THEY value the console

(Btw. I really wish we'll have expandable quotes soon, with the current 3 quotes rule the arguments are too torn apart...)

We don't know because it hasn't released, but we can formulate opinions on what we believe will be the most likely scenario.

When MS came up with the vision for the ONE, did they tell themselves "No point in developing this, since we don't know how the market will react to it"? No, they surely did not since it was presented 2 days ago. Instead, they used a probability scheme and heuristic to say "this is most likely to work".

While reading the news, we are formulating similar opinions, even making predictions. It's fun to do that and compare predictions and reasoning, and that's why this is not a useless exercise.

imho

This could be completely inacurrate, though. I'm pretty sure Nintendo did not intend to sell 25k units/week worldwide

Whether they succeed or not, doesn't change the thought process :) The Wii worked though! hehe

It's hit and miss, for sure, and that's why it's fun to speculate, because though I may bring up good points, I'm not guaranteed to be right. But at least I'm reasoning and giving reasons and explaining the whys and trying to understand the underlying market principles and dynamics. Whether i'm right or not ultimately is the whole fun of the game. :)

Yup^^

(I hope you weren't implying I didn't explain my points and making unreasonable claims, though )

Haha, no I wasn't. I was saying either of us could be wrong while speculating, but the fun is in giving what seem to be good reasons to back them up and then compare our analyses a few years later if we have the memory to :)

I was really reffering to DieAppleDie, he was the one talking about faults and you argreed with him, if you didnt agree with that part ignore it.

But see thats just it. Whose to say they didnt and WONT buy junk again look at some of the very top sellers on the system. WHy did they sell so well? Was it really because they were quality? Or popular? THey didnt stop making games, those "expanded market" kept getting made and only recently stop. Hell there was 3 games in the Deca Sports line alone. But every later release sold worst than the prior one. Why? Is it because what you say that they dont buy crap and realized it was always crap and stop buying or they lost interest.

YOu say quality went down? When? How? WHat games got worst?

Core, casual, mainstream, dedicated. Its the same thing, but i will use whatever words you want. BUt no one explained to me yet what 3rd parties were supposed to do (this is really for DieAppleDie). I suspect what some wanted to happen but that may be a discussion for another day.