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Forums - Gaming - RUMOR GTA 5 PC, Wii U, PS4, 720 versions to be announced on may 18th

FrancisNobleman on 28 April 2013
VGKing said:
Pemalite said:



Graphically, I would expect a 10x increase in image quality, it's a given, no idea where you pulled that 4.5x number from, it's the GPU rendering all those pretty graphics remember, not the Ram or the CPU.

That's not how it works. A GPU that's 10x more powerful doesn't necessarily lead to 10x the image quality.

By that logic, PS4 could handle 10 1080p screens at once.

But I agree that if developers are willing, any piece of ps4 software can run on the wii u. its not the same difference we had from wii to ps360. Those were one entire generation apart. PS4 is at best, 4x more powerful than wii u. PS3 was more than 20 times more powerfull than wii. (by internet tech heads, not me claiming these numbers)

 

Also, in a few years down the road, I dare anyone to distinguish a Wii U game pushing it's hardware from a game pushing PS4, out of a video compilation of some sort. 

Mario Galaxy upscaled, has aceptable graphics to be a PS3 psn game.



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VGKing on 28 April 2013
Zero999 said:
VGKing said:
Zero999 said:
Pemalite said:
Zero999 said:

Bolded: irrelevant

rest: now you are showing your real opinion. you don't WANT the wii u to get multiplats and that's just sad. wishing doom for the console you won't buy.


You are mistaking me completely for what I'm saying.
I couldn't care less if the Wii U becomes the best selling console of all time with a massive games library.

I primarily game on the PC these days, consoles have held back multi-platforms for to long on the PC, with most games abusing the horrible Unreal Engine 3.

I don't want it to be held back even more next generation, that's really not a hard thing to grasp is it? I don't even consider the PS4 powerfull enough for the long yards and I would have loved for it to be more than twice as powerfull, for my benefit indirectly. - The Wii U doesn't benefit me even in the slightest, only the opposite, it will hold back gaming graphics even more than the PS4 will if it has an abundance of multiplatforms as developers will use that system as the lowest common denominator to design games around.

Selfish, I know, but I doubt I'm the only one on this planet who feels the same.

And whilst I'm typing this my cat is running around the house eating moths like a lunatic, had to share that with the world.

gamers shouldn't have any problem with this situation. you focus is on graphics, wich have reached a point where raw power doesn't matter. look at the best looking game on ps360, you can't expect more than perfection on graphics and they are already pretty close to that.

Not at all. Graphics are nowhere near perfectection. We still can't even product Toy Story graphics in real time. If we can't even create high-end animated graphics, how are we supposed to create realistic graphics? 

One thing that current-gen consoles suffer from is poor performance. Even if graphics were at their limit(they really aren't) there's still a lot of room for improvement in terms of performance.

You're right about one thing though, raw power doesn't matter. It's a good thing that next-gen consoles have more than just "raw power". 

My point isn't about achieving 100% realism. the point is, take a look at things like the evil within screenshots. if the graphics get any better than that does it really matter? does it need to get better? everything is high quality to the extreme, why worry about more? only graphic whores care for that, true gamers will play the games and be sactisfied by the gameplay content, because the visuals don't need to get any better (perfection).

Evil Within is a next-gen game scaled down for current-gen. Expect current-gen versions to have lower frame-rates, clipping and a lot of other performance issues. We dont' need to achieve 100% realism, we likely never will. That doesn't mean we should stop improving graphics.

Powerful consoles lead to more than just better graphics. They lead to bigger worlds, dynamic environments, more destruction....etc. Better graphics can allow for better gameplay.

I'm not a "graphics whore". I don't buy games purely based on graphics, but they certainly do help. If you REALLY don't care about graphics, how about you go back and play some PS1 or N64 games. You'll realize how important graphics really are for immersion.



VGKing on 28 April 2013
FrancisNobleman said:
VGKing said:
Pemalite said:



Graphically, I would expect a 10x increase in image quality, it's a given, no idea where you pulled that 4.5x number from, it's the GPU rendering all those pretty graphics remember, not the Ram or the CPU.

That's not how it works. A GPU that's 10x more powerful doesn't necessarily lead to 10x the image quality.

By that logic, PS4 could handle 10 1080p screens at once.

But I agree that if developers are willing, any piece of ps4 software can run on the wii u. its not the same difference we had from wii to ps360. Those were one entire generation apart. PS4 is at best, 4x more powerful than wii u. PS3 was more than 20 times more powerfull than wii. (by internet tech heads, not me claiming these numbers)

 

Also, in a few years down the road, I dare anyone to distinguish a Wii U game pushing it's hardware from a game pushing PS4, out of a video compilation of some sort. 

Mario Galaxy upscaled, has aceptable graphics to be a PS3 psn game.

Sorry but PS4 and Wii U games will be in completely different leagues. Sure there will be some multiplats where the difference won't be so obvious but there will also be games that won't come to Wii U at all. PS4 or Xbox 720 will become the lowest common denominator next-gen and these games will be built to run on these powerful consoles.



Suke on 28 April 2013

Sweet, PS4 or Wii U is fine with me, let it happen :3



“Don’t follow the hype, follow the games”

— 

Here a little quote I want for those to keep memorize in your head for this coming next gen.                            

 By: Suke
Grandia on 28 April 2013
VGKing said:
FrancisNobleman said:
VGKing said:
Pemalite said:



Graphically, I would expect a 10x increase in image quality, it's a given, no idea where you pulled that 4.5x number from, it's the GPU rendering all those pretty graphics remember, not the Ram or the CPU.

That's not how it works. A GPU that's 10x more powerful doesn't necessarily lead to 10x the image quality.

By that logic, PS4 could handle 10 1080p screens at once.

But I agree that if developers are willing, any piece of ps4 software can run on the wii u. its not the same difference we had from wii to ps360. Those were one entire generation apart. PS4 is at best, 4x more powerful than wii u. PS3 was more than 20 times more powerfull than wii. (by internet tech heads, not me claiming these numbers)

 

Also, in a few years down the road, I dare anyone to distinguish a Wii U game pushing it's hardware from a game pushing PS4, out of a video compilation of some sort. 

Mario Galaxy upscaled, has aceptable graphics to be a PS3 psn game.

Sorry but PS4 and Wii U games will be in completely different leagues. Sure there will be some multiplats where the difference won't be so obvious but there will also be games that won't come to Wii U at all. PS4 or Xbox 720 will become the lowest common denominator next-gen and these games will be built to run on these powerful consoles.


Lets just wait and see what will happen, in my opinion graphics are now with PS3, WiiU and Xbox 360 are at a point where there is no real benefit or need for improvements they are almost photo realistic in games like Uncharted, Beyond two Souls or Gears of War, it is not possible and there is no need to improve this.

It only costs a incredible amount of money and at the end almost no one see a real difference. So let us see how many developers really want to wast a bunch of money for almost nothing. I am quite sure that almost all games will be possible with only a slight downgrade from PS4 and 720 to WiiU. The other question is if developers are willing to make downports and this will depend on how good or bad the WiiU sales will become with the time.



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hasonap on 28 April 2013
VGKing said:
Pemalite said:
Zero999 said:

why would i expect a 10x fold increase. even the ps4 is only a 4.5x over the ps3, if you count raw gigaflops. the wii was 20x less than ps360 with different architeture. now wii u should be 2x less than nextbox and 3x less than ps4 tops, see the difference?


PS3 GPU is around 176 Gigaflops.
PS4 GPU is around the 1.8 Teraflops mark.

That's a 10x increase in the main piece of hardware that renders and does all the fancy little tricks on screen alone.
Plus it's capable of much more effects than the PS3's GPU and is more efficient at doing so too.

CPU wise...
PS3 CPU: Around 230 Gigaflops for the maximum theoretical. (Note: No developer has managed to harness that.)
PS4 CPU: Anywhere from 300-400 Gigaflops, I'm basing this on the improvements from Brazos to Jaguar and the doubling of the cores etc'. - x86 based, easy for developers to gain the CPU's full potential.
At most a 2x improvement, Note: CPU's generally don't render graphics due to being serialised in nature where-as graphics are incredibly parallel in it's workload, some smaller framebuffer effects sure.

Ram:
PS3 Amount: 512Mb total. @ 24.9GBps. (That's the faster XDR speed I've listed.)
PS4 Amount: 8192Mb total. @ 176GBps.
That's a 16x increase in the memory amount, 7x increase in memory speed.

Graphically, I would expect a 10x increase in image quality, it's a given, no idea where you pulled that 4.5x number from, it's the GPU rendering all those pretty graphics remember, not the Ram or the CPU.

As for the Wii being a different architecture, that's not entirely accurate, the Wii used the same PowerPC architecture as the Xbox 360 and PS3, so CPU instruction compatability wise it's not all that different.
GPU wise, the Wii used an AMD Radeon (Possible Radeon 9000 series class) but modified heavily, using the TEV pixel shader technology that was in the Gamecube.

Now as for the Wii U vs PS4's GPU...
The PS4's GPU is again capable of about 1.8 Teraflops.
The Wii U's GPU will more than likely be around 240 - 624 Gigaflops (Basing that on the Radeon 6570 and 6450.)

Then the PS4's GPU also has a far more efficient Tessellator, it can render far more complex scenes and models with a minimal performance penalty, the VLIW5 architecture just never managed to be that great from a geometry perspective compared to the GCN architecture and that's just one of many examples.

The sad part is, I've had people yelling at me for bashing the PS4 over the last few days, you really can't win on this forum can you?

That's not how it works. A GPU that's 10x more powerful doesn't necessarily lead to 10x the image quality.

I really dont know how anyone could even say something like that! Seriously permalite do you have any idea of how hardware works?



FrancisNobleman on 28 April 2013
VGKing said:

Sorry but PS4 and Wii U games will be in completely different leagues. Sure there will be some multiplats where the difference won't be so obvious but there will also be games that won't come to Wii U at all. PS4 or Xbox 720 will become the lowest common denominator next-gen and these games will be built to run on these powerful consoles.

Battlefied 3 pc and ps3 are in different leagues too. And I don't see many people jumping to a 700$ PC to enjoy that next gen.

 

But going into the gen we'll see that. You can expect the graphics of anything Nintendo EAD to awe you on the Wii U. I'm expecting the difference to be about the same as 3DS vs Vita. (and don't bother with those uncharted upscaled bullshots, everyone knows it is a 720x408 jaggy mess. but the game's good, i recon that)



teigaga on 28 April 2013

Prior to te no e3 conference thing, I always expected that Nintendo would debut a new GTA5 trailer at there conference.

Rockstar don't hate nintendo just never had much reason to release for their previous platforms. Nintendo knows that GTA is probably the most respected of the popular, mature rated franchises like COD etc. More importantly Nintendo has more money to throw about on software then any of the big 3.



teigaga on 28 April 2013
hasonap said:
VGKing said:
Pemalite said:
Zero999 said:

why would i expect a 10x fold increase. even the ps4 is only a 4.5x over the ps3, if you count raw gigaflops. the wii was 20x less than ps360 with different architeture. now wii u should be 2x less than nextbox and 3x less than ps4 tops, see the difference?


PS3 GPU is around 176 Gigaflops.
PS4 GPU is around the 1.8 Teraflops mark.

That's a 10x increase in the main piece of hardware that renders and does all the fancy little tricks on screen alone.
Plus it's capable of much more effects than the PS3's GPU and is more efficient at doing so too.

CPU wise...
PS3 CPU: Around 230 Gigaflops for the maximum theoretical. (Note: No developer has managed to harness that.)
PS4 CPU: Anywhere from 300-400 Gigaflops, I'm basing this on the improvements from Brazos to Jaguar and the doubling of the cores etc'. - x86 based, easy for developers to gain the CPU's full potential.
At most a 2x improvement, Note: CPU's generally don't render graphics due to being serialised in nature where-as graphics are incredibly parallel in it's workload, some smaller framebuffer effects sure.

Ram:
PS3 Amount: 512Mb total. @ 24.9GBps. (That's the faster XDR speed I've listed.)
PS4 Amount: 8192Mb total. @ 176GBps.
That's a 16x increase in the memory amount, 7x increase in memory speed.

Graphically, I would expect a 10x increase in image quality, it's a given, no idea where you pulled that 4.5x number from, it's the GPU rendering all those pretty graphics remember, not the Ram or the CPU.

As for the Wii being a different architecture, that's not entirely accurate, the Wii used the same PowerPC architecture as the Xbox 360 and PS3, so CPU instruction compatability wise it's not all that different.
GPU wise, the Wii used an AMD Radeon (Possible Radeon 9000 series class) but modified heavily, using the TEV pixel shader technology that was in the Gamecube.

Now as for the Wii U vs PS4's GPU...
The PS4's GPU is again capable of about 1.8 Teraflops.
The Wii U's GPU will more than likely be around 240 - 624 Gigaflops (Basing that on the Radeon 6570 and 6450.)

Then the PS4's GPU also has a far more efficient Tessellator, it can render far more complex scenes and models with a minimal performance penalty, the VLIW5 architecture just never managed to be that great from a geometry perspective compared to the GCN architecture and that's just one of many examples.

The sad part is, I've had people yelling at me for bashing the PS4 over the last few days, you really can't win on this forum can you?

That's not how it works. A GPU that's 10x more powerful doesn't necessarily lead to 10x the image quality.

I really dont know how anyone could even say something like that! Seriously permalite do you have any idea of how hardware works?


Percieved image quality and actuall detail are 2 different things. I think you're refering to actual detail (objective), he's refering to how it look (subjective).



Mr Khan on 28 April 2013
teigaga said:
Prior to te no e3 conference thing, I always expected that Nintendo would debut a new GTA5 trailer at there conference.

Rockstar don't hate nintendo just never had much reason to release for their previous platforms. Nintendo knows that GTA is probably the most respected of the popular, mature rated franchises like COD etc. More importantly Nintendo has more money to throw about on software then any of the big 3.

And it's basically the only franchise Reggie mentioned by name as wanting to have it on Nintendo platforms. If NoA has any ability to do anything at all, they will have worked at getting a GTAV port.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.