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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are Consoles ruining the gaming industry?

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
fkusumot said:
prlatino86 said:
fkusumot said:
 

I'm very familiar with the video game crash of 1983. How does that fit into your thesis? After that crash console gaming reinvented itself and came back stronger than ever. I don't see how the movie industry is in decline either unless you're talking about the artistic merits of the movies made in the 1940's compared to the movies made in the 1990's.


??? am i the only one that reads business news? I thought this was fairly well known knowledge around that the industries are on a decline. What is meant by on a decline is that these industries are no longer seeing much in the way of growth, and in the case of the Music industry, is actually losing sales or the amount of money they make each year. Ever wonder why movie tickets are so damn high and always keep going up? its not just cuz of inflation. DVD sales are also starting to slow in the past few years, hence the push for Blu Ray and High Def; its an attempt to start making growth in sales again.


I don't care if they make less money, or in the case of movies, revenue growth is declining. They've been making less films for quite a long time. I believe the popular consensus is that movies got too expensive to make so fewer were made. Do you think that has been what's happening to the video game industry?


 Actually, im at a loss for this one, first time ive heard less movies are being made.  From my understanding they are making more movies now then they did 10 years ago, but i could be wrong.  Ill have to look that info up.  



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prlatino86 on 29 January 2008

Jesus, i got like 3 or 4 different conversations going on here, its hard to keep up, haha.



DSLover on 29 January 2008

all depends on the game and deveolpers themselves. I think consoles are bettering the industry personally.



 

 

MikeB on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.


What? what are you talking about 120 Gig PS3 for? Of course they wouldnt do full installs because its a console. PC are different. The game can come HIGHLY compressed on a disc because it will be installed and streamed from the Harddrive. Consoles cant really use as high of compression rates as it will slow down the game, and increase load times.


The Cell is excellently suited for load-time and run-time decompression. The cell can decompress files faster than the PS3 can read from discs, thus good compression of files (other than lossless uncompressed 7.1 audio) makes sense and is done in Games like Uncharted. For Uncharted there is no install time and very minimal load times involved.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
waron said:
prlatino86 said:
waron said:
prlatino86 said:
waron said:
fkusumot said:
waron said:
 

then what the heck was the whole nintendo kingdom of portable consoles earlier? it didn't give you console experience in portable machine? psp gave us only loco roco, potapon nad bunch of games that i could find on ps2. so for me psp is just a smaller ps2.


Exactly. The PSP is very comparable to a much smaller PS2. One that you can carry around with you. It's portable. It's a great portable multi-media machine. Really, it is. You can't deny it.


yes, but it didn't give something new to the market - which is still my point(well except being a multimedia thing). now consoles are only beter technically and nothing more plus they're starting to look like pc(you know ps3 can have linux and so on).


Yeah it did, it was marketed towards and older demographic, and played like a console. Like thats what i thought the Nintendo DS was going to be, when it first came out, a portable N64, cuz of Mario. So i got the DS and Mario when it first came out. Man, was i sadly mistaken, hahaha. The PSP give just another option in an optionless market.

just like every console(especially ps2, x360 and ps3) you know that, right? ds is not only a great n64 portable version it can much more - look at ASH gameplay videos. ds make a big step in the gaming industry - psp didn't.


Ok, how the hell are you going to compare the PSP with being the same as an X360 or PS3? when was the last time you saw some guy riding the bus playing his PS3?

PSP does bring something new to the market, because if there was no PSP, then the only option you would have now for a portable gaming device is a DS.

Edit: DS is a gimped version of the N64. Play Mario on there and compare it to the 64 version, its not AS great looking. If that is the cas, why didnt they come out with an Zelda: OoT port? That was the main complaint about the system when it first came out, they said Nintendo should have made it comparable to the N64.


prlatino86, i was talking about that you can describe by this:

Yeah it did, it was marketed towards and older demographic, and played like a console.

every sonys console psx, ps2 and ps3(plus every microsoft console). every sonys console is hitting to 16-30 year old guys.psp gives you the same type of games(actually it gives you exactly the same games)as ps2. there are many consoles that didn't make into the market as good as psp or ds(gizmondo, gp32 and so on) but only those two were able to gain enough audience to be popular consoles.


 So whats wrong with that description, how is that not bringing something new to the market of portables?  The N DS was never marketed or really even designed to play like a portable console.  If im correct, PSP is really the first to try and make a true Portable.... well, console, if that makes any sense, haha.  Like a true home console you could take with you.  



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prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.


What? what are you talking about 120 Gig PS3 for? Of course they wouldnt do full installs because its a console. PC are different. The game can come HIGHLY compressed on a disc because it will be installed and streamed from the Harddrive. Consoles cant really use as high of compression rates as it will slow down the game, and increase load times.


The Cell is excellently suited for load-time and run-time decompression. The cell can decompress files faster than the PS3 can read from discs, thus good compression of files (other than lossless uncompressed 7.1 audio) makes sense.


 and thats the inherent disadvantage of streaming off a disc.  If you got a bottleneck on the read speed of the Disc Drive, it will only go as fast as the disc can be read.  Hence the reason PC games are installed onto the harddrive now.  You got to remember, just because "this thing" can do this "this fast", if other parts it relies on to do its job cant do it as fast, then its only as fast as its slowest part.  You could have a 4 Ghz processor, but if its running a 333 FSB, a lot of that power goes to waste.  



MikeB on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.


What? what are you talking about 120 Gig PS3 for? Of course they wouldnt do full installs because its a console. PC are different. The game can come HIGHLY compressed on a disc because it will be installed and streamed from the Harddrive. Consoles cant really use as high of compression rates as it will slow down the game, and increase load times.


The Cell is excellently suited for load-time and run-time decompression. The cell can decompress files faster than the PS3 can read from discs, thus good compression of files (other than lossless uncompressed 7.1 audio) makes sense.


and thats the inherent disadvantage of streaming off a disc. If you got a bottleneck on the read speed of the Disc Drive, it will only go as fast as the disc can be read. Hence the reason PC games are installed onto the harddrive now. You got to remember, just because "this thing" can do this "this fast", if other parts it relies on to do its job cant do it as fast, then its only as fast as its slowest part. You could have a 4 Ghz processor, but if its running a 333 FSB, a lot of that power goes to waste.


Yes, load times matter. But for example at a lower read speed than is possible to achieve with the PS3 Blu-Ray drive, let's say 5MB/s on average a whole 50 GB (dual layer Blu-Ray disc) worth of data can be streamed during less than 3 hours of gameplay.

Not all the data will be read speed critical, for the most read speed critical data this can be stored on the PS3's default harddrive as well.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.


What? what are you talking about 120 Gig PS3 for? Of course they wouldnt do full installs because its a console. PC are different. The game can come HIGHLY compressed on a disc because it will be installed and streamed from the Harddrive. Consoles cant really use as high of compression rates as it will slow down the game, and increase load times.


The Cell is excellently suited for load-time and run-time decompression. The cell can decompress files faster than the PS3 can read from discs, thus good compression of files (other than lossless uncompressed 7.1 audio) makes sense.


and thats the inherent disadvantage of streaming off a disc. If you got a bottleneck on the read speed of the Disc Drive, it will only go as fast as the disc can be read. Hence the reason PC games are installed onto the harddrive now. You got to remember, just because "this thing" can do this "this fast", if other parts it relies on to do its job cant do it as fast, then its only as fast as its slowest part. You could have a 4 Ghz processor, but if its running a 333 FSB, a lot of that power goes to waste.


Yes, load times matter. But for example at a lower read speed than is possible to achieve with the PS3 Blu-Ray drive, let's say 5MB/s on average a whole 50 GB (dual layer Blu-Ray disc) worth of data can be streamed during less than 3 hours of gameplay.

Not all the data will be read speed critical, for the most read speed critical data this can be stored on the PS3's default harddrive as well.


 Sooo, to your beginning point.  How is this a benefit over PC when PC just streams straight off the harddrive?  



MikeB on 29 January 2008

@ prlatino86

Sooo, to your beginning point. How is this a benefit over PC when PC just streams straight off the harddrive?


More space for data, you can for example have a much wider varierty of high quality textures.

You may have a Terrabyte harddrive inside your PC or connected to your PS3, but games developers will take into account the most basic configuration almost everyone already owns. The days of en mass upgrading PC gamers, this to just play Doom or Quake are over.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

totalwar23 on 29 January 2008
^^Dude, he doesn't have point. He just takes every chance he can get to inform you "The power of the Cellz."