By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Put a fork in the Wii U, it is done. [Sensible discussion only, no flaming]

JakDaSnack on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:
JakDaSnack said:
thekitchensink said:
You're right. Nintendo's new system is tanking horribly. It's only somewhat more powerful than Sony's previous-generation effort, has almost no good games and a 'gimmick' that supposedly adds nothing to gameplay, and is going to be demolished by an upcoming competitor with a stronger lineup that is orders of magnitude more powerful than it. This new system also has the benefit of maintaining the online accounts people have become so attached to.

Yes, the 3DS is so screwed when the Vita comes out.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,

As for the OP, 

40 is actually pretty good.

Name one gen that Nintendo had "good" 3rd party support, that had at least 1 other decent competitor, AND they sold more than 60 million units?  Can't think of any?  That's right, CUS THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED AND HAS NEVER STOPPED NINTENDO.  Nintendo thrives off of their first party support, the casual gamer bougth the wii for wii sports, wii fit, mario kart and NSUMBW.  When they launch wii fit, wii sports, mario kart and have a decent price drop in a year or 2, I bet you anything that the casual audience will buy a lot of wiiU's.

You are trying to argue that the ps4 and 720 will take away Nintendo's loyal fanbase, keep in mind a couple things, how many sony fans abandoned Sony from last gen to current gen?  That's right, HALF OF THE SONY FANBASE LEFT SONY FOR MICROSOFT.  Why did they do this?  Because Sony abandoned all of their platform and rpg games for shooters.  Ok, that may not be true, in actuallity, because the xbox 360 was getting better 3rd party support, and because it's cheaper, and because games were ported from the 360 to the ps3 so the ps3 was getting bad ports, the fanbase left.  Will they come back?  Maybe, too early to tell, so far we have yet another shooter....a couple new IP's that don't seem to be attracting a lot of attention, and an eye that spies on you. 

Name one gen where the most powerful console won the console wars?  Can't think of any?  THATS BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED!!!!  maybe if you go back to the pre Nintendo error, but whatever, the point is that the weakest console typically wins.

The cost of gaming has gone up a lot, and even if Nintendo doesn't get a lot of AAA games, they will still get a lot of games from indie developers(which they currently are getting).  Only time will tell whether or not they get AAA games, but keep in mind that the power difference of the wiiU-ps4 is much smaller than the wii-ps3, which is definitely a plus, and because of the high development costs, it would definitely be wise for companies to port their games on every platform to maximize their profits.

Anyways i'm going off here, but I'm interested in a debate, not some flame war, sorry for my caps in certain places.  And for the record my point isn't that Nintendo will get 90+ million units, or that it will win next gen, even though I made some points that it might>.>  my point is that, compared to the ps4 and 720 it will do well, so if the other two consoles sell 40-60 million units in their life time, I would suspect the wiiU will sell at least 30-50 million units.

So much fail!  Where do I start:

-First you start by basically admitting my 15-40 mil is probably right

-People left for the 360 since they had no accounts to leave behind.  Now they do.

-This gen isn't over.  The Wii will probably reach ~102m, and the PS3 WILL reach 90m and could reach 105m to just barily win this gen.  The entire time it has sold for far more than the Wii.  The fact that it will even come close basically debunks your price claim.

-PSN and LIVE have far more indy support now than Nintendo EVER will.  Also PC is the home of indy.  It feels like a new indy game comes out every other day on steam (Not exagerating) .

so much for no flame wars:/ 

oh well, I didn't start by "basically admitting your 15-40 mil" is probably right, I said, 40 mil isn't bad.  And I even clarified what I meant at the end, which you ignored, as well as all my other points.....oh well, you clearly want a flame war and not a debate.  If you are interested in knowing what my points were, I encourage you to re-read my post, don't worry, I quoted it above.

"the fact that it will even come close basically debunks your price claim"  First off, no it doesn't, second off, wtf price claim?  My claim is based off power not price, the gamecube was much cheaper than the ps2 but the ps2 rofl stomped all over the gamecube.  In that regards, you debunked nothing, you claim that the ps3 can sell 25-30 million before Sony stops production, which will probaly be in 3-4 years, and you are assuming that Nintendo will stop prodution on the wii much sooner than that, and the ps3 will pass it.  That's a TON of assumptions, if this does happen, then you can say the ps3 sold more copies than the wii, and everyone else will just say the generation was over a long time ago.  Because it was....but that's a different arguement, and one I wont take part of.  one of which has no baring on the current debate.

Remember, I'm saying the weakest console has always won, and will win,  and for the time that the wii was supported, the wii dominated,  that's like running a marathon, winning the marathon, but the guy who got 3rd kept running for another 15 miles, while you went home and celebrated, and then claimed to have won because he ran farther....I'm sorry but that's not how things work.

Anyways, you claim that because of psn and xbox live, that sony and microsoft will sell a lot more, because wii owners aren't required to move onto the wiiU.

ok, how many xbox live and psn accounts are there?  I honestly don't know but I do know it's a lot less than units sold.  Now how many of them actually care about what they have on live, as oppose to the games they own.  Remember, no backwards compatability so any game you purchased on your psn account, you can't play on your ps4.  Unlike the wiiU where you can play wiiware games on the wiiU.  That number will then go down a lot more.  I would recon that all the psn and live usuers that actually care about being able to keep their accounts is maybe a 4th of the actual users, so we are talking maybe 10-20 million.

While that will help them next gen, It wont be what causes them to win next gen.

As for indy games, I never said that the wiiU was king of indy games, I said that indy developers are really liking the wiiU and seems like every day a new indy dev says they are planning on developing a game for the wiiU.  As for pc, that is a completely different topic, so please stay on course.

Ok, you clearly are trying to cause a flame war, even though I specifically ask you not to, even you said you didn't want one.  If you are going to continue a flame war, I will ignore you and you will be a flat out liar.  If you want a debate, don't start things out as "so much fail" and make sure to clarify what are "opinions" "facts" and "predicitons"  saying that the ps3 WILL eventually pass the wii is a "prediction" and does not prove my point wrong. Saying that the psn and live have more indy support than the wiiU ever will is also a prediction and doens't prove my point wrong, that also goes off topic as I didn't say that the wiiU will WIN next gen, I said they will do well compared to the ps4 and 720.  And don't ignore my points, I responded to all your points, and made it very clear what are predictions, facts, and opinions.



Something...Something...Games...Something

Around the Network
Captain_Tom on 22 March 2013
zippy said:

Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Can someone please answer me this.....When the PS4/720 sells 1/2 - 2/3 of what the WiiU has in the same time frame, will they be doomed as well??? Just wondering.


zippy
Well said, people think the PS4 is going to be a resounding success. Lessons will never be learned.


If it does, I will say I was wrong, or simply state that people are moving on to PC's and tablets.  Until then we will just have to assume the Wii U is a huge loss.



zippy on 22 March 2013

Captain_Tom said:



zippy said:

Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Can someone please answer me this.....When the PS4/720 sells 1/2 - 2/3 of what the WiiU has in the same time frame, will they be doomed as well??? Just wondering.


zippy
Well said, people think the PS4 is going to be a resounding success. Lessons will never be learned.





If it does, I will say I was wrong, or simply state that people are moving on to PC's and tablets.  Until then we will just have to assume the Wii U is a huge loss.


zippy
I can tell you now, regardless of what Wii U sells Nintendo will have made a profit on their investment.



mutantclown on 22 March 2013

Wii U has been compared to the Dreamcast before. I just hope this is not entirely the case, as in putting Nintendo out of the console hardware business. But contrary to what the Dreamcast was (a considerable jump over PlayStation and N64), Nintendo played it safe with Wii U, too safe, but in the long run it will not drive them out of business, not even close. Nintendo will simply cut their losses, which won't be huge, regroup and try again in 4-5 years. If they're wise they will start researching and designing the next Nintendo console by next year.



Turkish on 22 March 2013

Not a very good outlook. Even if things started to change by november, that means they lost an entire year headstart.



Around the Network
JoeTheBro on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:
JoeTheBro said:
Captain_Tom said:

 

-PSN and LIVE have a loyal fanbase built up that want to keep their accounts.  They will not switch to the Wii U.

People really don't care about that crap. Consumers are not loyal just because on one system they have trophies.

Omg they do.  All my friends are not switching beause of this.  You live in a dream world or you are missing out big (Probably both).

DOUBLE OMG no they don't. Your friends sound like fanboys. Also that second sentence is just such a fun thing to read.

[Just because you own both, does not mean most do.  You are the minority]

-It is effectively the same strength as current consoles with a little extra ram.

It's fairly more powerful. The architecture is fresh so we won't see a leap but it will continue to grow and look better. Similarly to the PS3 and 360 looking better today than at launch.

I know PC specs like the back of my hand.  It is roughly the same.

Yeah I remember your PC gaming is cheap thread. That's a -1 for your credibility with CONSOLES.

-The touchpad is not enough to justify its price premium, and the PS4 will have Vita/720 will have tablets.

It's a premium over current gen, not next gen. PS4 and XBOX: GOLD will both cost more. Also tablets will not replicate the pad since they lack buttons. Vita will not replicate the pad since it lacks sales. Only advantage is off screen play.

That's the problem.  It ISN'T a premium when it has no HDD, Trophies, or a standardized online system.

People don't buy systems for trophies.

-No compelling third party games you can't get elseware

So? Third party exclusives are no different than first party exclusives. As long as Nintendo can pump out games this is a non issue.

They clearly cannot.  It is just impossible to out pace the massive studios SONY has built up + the dozens of great third party games released every year,

My hater senses are tingling.

Third Parties will not support it well because:

-Since no version has enough storage there will effectively little to no DLC,and no games can be installed.  This means longer load times and its extra power is completely bottlenecked by the lack of storage.

DLC is slowly going to be ported. Only problem is it will lack exclusive DLC. Also games don't need to be installed because the disc read speed is 22.5 MB/s. The PS3 had a disc read speed of 9 MB/s.

LOL an HDD has a read speed of 50-100 MB/s.  DLC will be rare because NO ONE CAN DOWNLOAD IT!

I don't think you think too much...

-Large updates are not feasable.  BF3's total update space is around 7 GB before DLC.

Most Wii U owners will have an external drive plugged in.

Those are bottlenecked by USB 2.0.  They usually read around the same speed as the Wii U discs.  Also not everyone has one, so they won't bother, and you are glad you have to spend more?  Ok...

Bottlenecked to the equivelent of playing off a disc. How is this a problem again? Also most people have external drives that they have sitting around.

-The Next Gen consoles will be easy to program for like PC versions of games, and the PS360 have already been completely figured out.  There is no reason to figure out another IBM CPU for an install base of a few million, when an install base of 150 Mil is sitting around.

At launch the Wii U instal base will be 7 million while the other two will be at 0. Devs will be able to make a fair amount of money supporting it, at least for the time being.

I know and that is why games will actually be put on the PS360 while the Wii U will be a pariah.  Also say what you think, I know that BF4, COD, and many other games are already announced to not be on the Wii U but is on the PS4.  Only Ubisoft is supporting it, and they always do. 

Saying Ubisoft suports them as if it's a bad thing... ok.

A price cut and games will not change this because:

-If it is cut to $200 when the PS4 comes out, PS360 will be $100-$200 and have a 7+ year library of great games.

PS360 won't be getting all the great new games. Also the people who buy a system near launch are not the same market as current PS360 buyers.  

They won't?  TLOU and Beyond Two Souls is still slated for this year and all third party games besides the next COD (Rumored) will be on the current gen.

TLOU comes out in June while Beyond is October. Do you think PS4 will be coming out this soon?

-The PS4 will be about 10 times stronger and far more capaple.  This is where the hardcore will go.

By that logic, hardcore will go to PC.

They are in huge numbers.  Look it up.

Your fail is huge numbers. Look it up.

-Great games will sell some consoles but remember I said 15-40 million.  I doubt it will be as bad as the dreamcast.

15-40 million is still better than putting a fork in it. Honestly I expect them to pull a three pillars strategy again if sales stay low. In 3 to 4 years they could launch a HD 4K system that's way more powerful than the PS4 and come up with a better gimmick. At the same time they'd keep supporting the Wii U, just like they did with GBA and DS.

 

Yes in 2-3 yeats they will be FORCED to make a new console.  That's good? Ok...

I don't think you know what's up...

Also unless your response has at least one joke, don't bother responding. K?









Links

JakDaSnack on 22 March 2013
Turkish said:
Not a very good outlook. Even if things started to change by november, that means they lost an entire year headstart.


Does everyone forget that the xbox 360 had a worse start than the wiiU?  That headstart worked quite well for the xbox 360, they went from selling around 25 million, to around 75 million.  Anways, if the games come out before the 720 and ps4 launch, then that extra year will have been worth it, especially since the ps4 and 720 will likely face similar problems during their first few months.



Something...Something...Games...Something

Captain_Tom on 22 March 2013

So much fail!  Where do I start:

-First you start by basically admitting my 15-40 mil is probably right

-People left for the 360 since they had no accounts to leave behind.  Now they do.

-This gen isn't over.  The Wii will probably reach ~102m, and the PS3 WILL reach 90m and could reach 105m to just barily win this gen.  The entire time it has sold for far more than the Wii.  The fact that it will even come close basically debunks your price claim.

-PSN and LIVE have far more indy support now than Nintendo EVER will.  Also PC is the home of indy.  It feels like a new indy game comes out every other day on steam (Not exagerating) .

so much for no flame wars:/ 

oh well, I didn't start by "basically admitting your 15-40 mil" is probably right, I said, 40 mil isn't bad.  And I even clarified what I meant at the end, which you ignored, as well as all my other points.....oh well, you clearly want a flame war and not a debate.  If you are interested in knowing what my points were, I encourage you to re-read my post, don't worry, I quoted it above.

"the fact that it will even come close basically debunks your price claim"  First off, no it doesn't, second off, wtf price claim?  My claim is based off power not price, the gamecube was much cheaper than the ps2 but the ps2 rofl stomped all over the gamecube.  In that regards, you debunked nothing, you claim that the ps3 can sell 25-30 million before Sony stops production, which will probaly be in 3-4 years, and you are assuming that Nintendo will stop prodution on the wii much sooner than that, and the ps3 will pass it.  That's a TON of assumptions, if this does happen, then you can say the ps3 sold more copies than the wii, and everyone else will just say the generation was over a long time ago.  Because it was....but that's a different arguement, and one I wont take part of.  one of which has no baring on the current debate.

Remember, I'm saying the weakest console has always won, and will win,  and for the time that the wii was supported, the wii dominated,  that's like running a marathon, winning the marathon, but the guy who got 3rd kept running for another 15 miles, while you went home and celebrated, and then claimed to have won because he ran farther....I'm sorry but that's not how things work.

Anyways, you claim that because of psn and xbox live, that sony and microsoft will sell a lot more, because wii owners aren't required to move onto the wiiU.

ok, how many xbox live and psn accounts are there?  I honestly don't know but I do know it's a lot less than units sold.  Now how many of them actually care about what they have on live, as oppose to the games they own.  Remember, no backwards compatability so any game you purchased on your psn account, you can't play on your ps4.  Unlike the wiiU where you can play wiiware games on the wiiU.  That number will then go down a lot more.  I would recon that all the psn and live usuers that actually care about being able to keep their accounts is maybe a 4th of the actual users, so we are talking maybe 10-20 million.

While that will help them next gen, It wont be what causes them to win next gen.

As for indy games, I never said that the wiiU was king of indy games, I said that indy developers are really liking the wiiU and seems like every day a new indy dev says they are planning on developing a game for the wiiU.  As for pc, that is a completely different topic, so please stay on course.

Ok, you clearly are trying to cause a flame war, even though I specifically ask you not to, even you said you didn't want one.  If you are going to continue a flame war, I will ignore you and you will be a flat out liar.  If you want a debate, don't start things out as "so much fail" and make sure to clarify what are "opinions" "facts" and "predicitons"  saying that the ps3 WILL eventually pass the wii is a "prediction" and does not prove my point wrong. Saying that the psn and live have more indy support than the wiiU ever will is also a prediction and doens't prove my point wrong, that also goes off topic as I didn't say that the wiiU will WIN next gen, I said they will do well compared to the ps4 and 720.  And don't ignore my points, I responded to all your points, and made it very clear what are predictions, facts, and opinions.


Actually half way through your post I decided I am gonna ignore you because you are clearly ignorant (Not stupid).  You have no idea that there are 30m+ 360 gold accounts or that there are 40m highly active PSN accounts that spend money.  You cant even imagine how much people invested into these accounts including achievments, friends, and other media to ever just leave it all behind.  

 

Maybe "fail" was not needed, but I just don't know what else to say to so many errors and inaccuracies.  Also we are comparing how well one console is doing compared to others. Periode.  If the PS3 keeps selling till 2020, it all counts because SONY is still making money off of all of them.  A "Console War" is not a race, it is a competition to see who can build the tallest tower.

 

P.S.  Look up the Wii's sales from last year.  They were around 4-5m total which is god awful, and the current monthly trends put 2013's sales at less than 2m.  It will crawl past 100m in the middle of summer and stay around there.  Come back this summer when you want to say I was right...



echoesfromthepast on 22 March 2013

I've said it many times and I'll say it again.
Every console has a slow start (the Wii is an exception)
Remember the doom and gloom 3ds? How is it doing now?
Exactly.



     
Games can and should tell stories and share ideas through their mechanics. This is the intrinsic element of the medium and this is how experiences should be crafted in video games. No company does this as well as Nintendo and their echoes from the past.
  Aurum Ring  Delano7  Ocarinahero032

sethnintendo on 22 March 2013
Captain_Tom said:

-PSN and LIVE have far more indy support now than Nintendo EVER will.  Also PC is the home of indy.  It feels like a new indy game comes out every other day on steam (Not exagerating) .

I will not add much to this thread because I completely disagree with you but I will comment on this.   If anything Nintendo is courting indie developers hard with the 3DS and Wii U eshops.  Almost all previous WiiWare issues have been resolved (only main issue left is the office issue which Nintendo might be getting rid of ( http://purenintendo.com/2013/01/20/nintendo-to-remove-office-space-restriction-for-indie-developers/ ).  Patches are free for Wii U and 3DS eshop (can cost a lot on other platforms).

http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/27/nintendo-wii-u-eshop-indie-developers/

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/frozenbyte_indie_developers_have_more_control_on_wii_u_eshop

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/10/indie_developers_speak_highly_of_wii_u_eshop

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/02/vblank_entertainment_nintendo_is_great_to_work_with

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/01/developer_interview_bertil_horberg_on_being_a_one_man_eshop_developer

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/developer_excited_by_indie_friendly_wii_u_eshop

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/11/talking_point_the_wii_u_eshop_could_be_a_developers_dream

I can provide you with a lot more links if you want of indie developers praising Nintendo.  Microsoft might have gotten the indie developers on board early with the 360 but their treatment of indie developers has turned many off.