What i believe happened to the PS3 is that they wanted to introduce Blu-Ray and at a time when Blu-Ray players cost as much as a PS3 this caused alot of people to turn there backs but i believe that the PS3 is the setup to the PS4 where they will dominate because Blu-Ray will be cheaper to produce and allow the PS4 to be more flexible in price and the PSN will be superior or equal to Live.

And no one else will use Blu-ray according to you???  (Oh wait -- unless you didn't mean that PS4 would dominate due to Blu-ray.  Sorry if I misunderstood.  The PS4 will definitely be way cheaper in any case due to cheap Blu-ray.)

No i meant that because of cheaper Blu-Ray production cost,the PS4 will be in a better position than the PS3 was out the gate.

No i meant that because of cheaper Blu-Ray production cost,the PS4 will be in a better position than the PS3 was out the gate.

Prodigy_BE said: F-J Warez I said, at one point. Just as the PSone, and the PS2 stopped at the 99$ price point. The more the price goes down and the bundles and stuff get more interesting, the more people buy the damn thing. So why the "Sony will not gain support from the mass market and the devs" remarks? EA has already said it is making PS3 its leading platform, Infinity Ward said it had its best people on the PS3 version and the Unreal 3 engine is finaly up to speed for the PS3. UT3 proves that. Multiformat devs want their games to sell as much as possible on all platforms, so they will make their games as good as possible on all platforms. And yes, they had trouble with the Cell in the beginning. Just as they had trouble with the PS2 in the beginning (I remember my Dreamcast games looking much better than my early PS2 games). But the more they work with it, the more they get to know it's power. And yes, Cell's power has more in store for us than the 360's cpu. Some developers have already started to unlock that power (Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, Killzone...), and in due time the gap between top visuals in 360 and PS3 will become bigger. Look, I've got all three systems, and play all three systems, but Sony, doing what they always do (looking for advanced tech as their savoir), will come out on top in the end. And I believe in a + 100 million total sales. Which is more than 50% less than the PS3, if you look at the expansion of the market, by the way.

 The price means next to nothing without mass market appeal, no shovelware, no mainstream game, pure "hardcore" games = small market...

Sony will not gain support from most fo the devs, maybe big co´s like Ea want to support the system (Since the dev cost can be shared with the 360), and you are not going to notice a real gap between graphics... but most of the devs (the ones without large amounts of money) out there are not going to take the risk to support only the "expensive to develop" PS3, how many games has the PS3 vs the Wii (same time frame, and everybody thought that the clear winner will be the PS3)... you can argue quality, but the amount of quality games and the genre of the games just support the idea of small market...

Devs want money, the best shot right now is the Wii...

If visuals are the selling point of the PS3, well we know what a strong driving force are the "true next gen graphics"...

Sony, err, mmm, visuals and tech were not the selling point of the last two consoles..

*bleu-ocelot* said: No i meant that because of cheaper Blu-Ray production cost,the PS4 will be in a better position than the PS3 was out the gate.

In that case, in terms of cost and ease of production, I agree completely. 

But on the other hand, the PS4 won't be coming off of the massive success of the PS2.  The PS3 will probably be in a strong 2nd position, but it will be far behind the leader, and far, FAR from the crushing dominance of the PS2.  It's impossible to say at this point exactly what impact that will have on the level of support the PS4 will have out of the gate, but it will not have the same level of developer confidence and support that the PS3 initially had. 

Final-Fan said: *bleu-ocelot* said: No i meant that because of cheaper Blu-Ray production cost,the PS4 will be in a better position than the PS3 was out the gate. In that case, in terms of cost and ease of production, I agree completely. But on the other hand, the PS4 won't be coming off of the massive success of the PS2. The PS3 will probably be in a strong 2nd position, but it will be far behind the leader, and far, FAR from the crushing dominance of the PS2. It's impossible to say at this point exactly what impact that will have on the level of support the PS4 will have out of the gate, but it will not have the same level of developer confidence and support that the PS3 initially had.

PS4 will have more developer confidence and support, not less, if its architecture is based an evolution of the Cell processor, as it likely will be. (E.G. 64 SPUs and 8 dual-thread PPUs running at 5Ghz -- IBM has already run Cells at 6ghz +). Devs will come out of the gate rocking the hardware because they already know it from its infant state -- in PS3. This, I think, has always been the plan.

Initial dev confidence and support don't depend so much on whether the previous console sold 75 million or 150 million units, so much as they depend on the architecture: is it PC-like, or is it like another console that the devs already know how to work with (360 and Wii had those advantages, respectively, over the PS3 this gen, but next gen if PS4 still uses improved Cell(s) or other more standard chips, the advantage is gone).

Loud_Hot_White_Box said: Final-Fan said: *bleu-ocelot* said: No i meant that because of cheaper Blu-Ray production cost,the PS4 will be in a better position than the PS3 was out the gate. In that case, in terms of cost and ease of production, I agree completely. But on the other hand, the PS4 won't be coming off of the massive success of the PS2. The PS3 will probably be in a strong 2nd position, but it will be far behind the leader, and far, FAR from the crushing dominance of the PS2. It's impossible to say at this point exactly what impact that will have on the level of support the PS4 will have out of the gate, but it will not have the same level of developer confidence and support that the PS3 initially had. PS4 will have more developer confidence and support, not less, if its architecture is based an evolution of the Cell processor, as it likely will be. (E.G. 64 SPUs and 8 dual-thread PPUs running at 5Ghz -- IBM has already run Cells at 6ghz +). Devs will come out of the gate rocking the hardware because they already know it from its infant state -- in PS3. This, I think, has always been the plan. Dev confidence in support don't depend as much on whether the previous console sold 75 or 150 million units so much as it depends on the architecture: is it PC-like, or is it like another console that the devs already know how to work with (360 and Wii had those advantages, respectively, over the PS3 this gen, but next gen if PS4 still uses Cell(s) -- vastly improved though they will be -- the advantage is gone).

Oh, that explains the massive launch support for the Xbox -- basically a budget PC in a Halloween costume.  And the Wii obviously had a landslide of developer support in its early days due to being an evolution of the Gamecube architecture. 

Apologies for the sarcasm, but that is just completely counterfactual.  It is true that a Cell-based PS4 will be much easier to develop for than the PS3 was at first, since they will have grown more used to what was literally an all-new type of processor.  But that doesn't mean that they'll necessarily want to. 

Perhaps you misunderstood me when I spoke of "developer confidence and support".  In the months -- indeed, years -- before the new systems launched, it was Sony's system that got all the attention.  It was the golden boy, the heir to the throne.  Only the yearlong head start of the 360 gave it the software advantage it now enjoys.  Only Nintendo's amazing marathon effort has given the Wii its superior load of stellar titles -- as someone pointed out today (yesterday?) on a thread I can't be bothered to identify right now, the PS3 actually has more "pretty good" games, despite the Wii absolutely crushing the PS3 ever since launch -- ever since E3 2006, really. 

The PS4 will not have that advantage.  The Wii is king, and the PS4 is certainly not going to be its prince. 

@CrazzyMan

2008 - 25 mln

^^ The PS3 won't sell 13million consoles in the remaining 8 months.

Even selling 200k a week it would sell 6.4million consoles more by end of year.

Sorry if I missed something in your argument.

PS3 wont sell 100m it dosent have the momentum to do so, it will probably have lifetime sales of 50m or so, it will definetley outsell the 360. also my sales predictions are:

Wii - 125m
PS3 - 50m
360 - 35m