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Forums - Gaming - Paying for online gaming, THE OUTRAGE!

J_Allard said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

I never said anyones gullible, you don't have to be gullible to grab a dangling carrot. It's called checkmate.

You said Live users have "been had", it's the same thing. And I'm sure you're a PS+ user so you'd know all about grabbing the carrot.


I've had Xbox Live and it ran out at the beginning of the year. I am going to get it again soon, but because my friends are getting Gears Judgement and I dont want to get cut off of the online when they start playing. I am admitting to you now that I've been had because I like Halo and Gears.  PSN Plus wasn't dangled in front of me, I like getting a good stream of discounts and new games I would never normally play (or genres I havent tried in a while like side scrollers). I didnt value PSN Plus in late 2010 (when it launched)  and wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole until after E3 2012 when Sony overhauled it with more games and discounts to make it worth the price. Also, there is no toll, its pure choice, Sony lets you have your online as it should be which is free (because you pay for online already) let the third party pay for servers and not slip you the bill. You are equating two services which having nothing to do with one another. PSN Plus would be a Platinum tier to what Xbox Live Gold is, giving you more for your money. Xbox Live charges you for online gaming, period. You know full well that no one else does that, therefore,  Microsoft has got your online gaming under serious lockdown if you want to enjoy the other 50% of online gaming titles. 

50% Campaign

50% Online

Microsoft forces you to pay if you want to enjoy the latter. There is no defending it.

They've got your subscriptions under lockdown 100% if you want to use it on their OS, that is what you're paying for. You're paying to use their OS and thats all it is. You can use it for free everywhere else, except on the Xbox OS. They've got free services like Youtube under lockdown and adding it ot the price of Xbox Live, when Sony has the exact same product free.

It is curious that the only major thing Microsoft allows Silver users to do is download demos and most importantly to make purchases. 



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kayoss said:

there's a flaw in you reasoning for this. So lets pretend you play an MMO that requires you to pay a subscription fee like world of war craft on the Xbox 360. you see where im going with this??? let me spell it out to you.

1. You pay your internet provider to access online.

2. You pay xbox gold live to play your games online

3. You pay subscription to play world of war craft on the xbox 360 to play online.

You are paying 3 times just to play a damn game. The worst part about this is that it does not only apply to games, it apply to other apps on your xbox like Netflix, hulu, crunchy roll, etc.... In order to access all those apps that you already pay a subscription for you have to pay xbox live to do so.

Here's a scenario for you in food terms for the xbox360

You pay a monthly fee to get all you can eat cheeseburger (internet fee)

However when you get their they say that in order to get your cheese burger you have to pay an entrance fee (xbox gold live)

Once you pay the entrance you order your cheeseburger they say you have to pay the wrapping fee for the burger. (MMO fee)

 

howeve

This is horrible. You get to play the game with out live. Your only missing your added chicken nuggets on the side. So you do have to pay for the extra chicken nuggets and I can't wait tell sony reviels that they are going the same way as MS> It's coming and the meltdowns are going to be epic.



easyrider said:
kayoss said:

there's a flaw in you reasoning for this. So lets pretend you play an MMO that requires you to pay a subscription fee like world of war craft on the Xbox 360. you see where im going with this??? let me spell it out to you.

1. You pay your internet provider to access online.

2. You pay xbox gold live to play your games online

3. You pay subscription to play world of war craft on the xbox 360 to play online.

You are paying 3 times just to play a damn game. The worst part about this is that it does not only apply to games, it apply to other apps on your xbox like Netflix, hulu, crunchy roll, etc.... In order to access all those apps that you already pay a subscription for you have to pay xbox live to do so.

Here's a scenario for you in food terms for the xbox360

You pay a monthly fee to get all you can eat cheeseburger (internet fee)

However when you get their they say that in order to get your cheese burger you have to pay an entrance fee (xbox gold live)

Once you pay the entrance you order your cheeseburger they say you have to pay the wrapping fee for the burger. (MMO fee)

 

howeve

This is horrible. You get to play the game with out live. Your only missing your added chicken nuggets on the side. So you do have to pay for the extra chicken nuggets and I can't wait tell sony reviels that they are going the same way as MS> It's coming and the meltdowns are going to be epic.

Nope. Sony is going to be f2p again, and will charge for PS+ and Gaikai. Meanwhile at Microsoft...



easyrider said:
kayoss said:

there's a flaw in you reasoning for this. So lets pretend you play an MMO that requires you to pay a subscription fee like world of war craft on the Xbox 360. you see where im going with this??? let me spell it out to you.

1. You pay your internet provider to access online.

2. You pay xbox gold live to play your games online

3. You pay subscription to play world of war craft on the xbox 360 to play online.

You are paying 3 times just to play a damn game. The worst part about this is that it does not only apply to games, it apply to other apps on your xbox like Netflix, hulu, crunchy roll, etc.... In order to access all those apps that you already pay a subscription for you have to pay xbox live to do so.

Here's a scenario for you in food terms for the xbox360

You pay a monthly fee to get all you can eat cheeseburger (internet fee)

However when you get their they say that in order to get your cheese burger you have to pay an entrance fee (xbox gold live)

Once you pay the entrance you order your cheeseburger they say you have to pay the wrapping fee for the burger. (MMO fee)

 

howeve

This is horrible. You get to play the game with out live. Your only missing your added chicken nuggets on the side. So you do have to pay for the extra chicken nuggets and I can't wait tell sony reviels that they are going the same way as MS> It's coming and the meltdowns are going to be epic.

I highly doubt this. Microsoft doesn't make you pay for extra chicken nuggets, they give you an exclusive game make you pay full price for it and say without paying for the online you get only half of the experience. That is the truth. That is destroying the industry.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
J_Allard said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

I never said anyones gullible, you don't have to be gullible to grab a dangling carrot. It's called checkmate.

You said Live users have "been had", it's the same thing. And I'm sure you're a PS+ user so you'd know all about grabbing the carrot.


I've had Xbox Live and it ran out at the beginning of the year. I am going to get it again soon, but because my friends are getting Gears Judgement and I dont want to get cut off of the online when they start playing. I am admitting to you now that I've been had because I like Halo and Gears.  PSN Plus wasn't dangled in front of me, I like getting a good stream of discounts and new games I would never normally play (or genres I havent tried in a while like side scrollers). I didnt value PSN Plus in late 2010 (when it launched)  and wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole until after E3 2012 when Sony overhauled it with more games and discounts to make it worth the price. Also, there is no toll, its pure choice, Sony lets you have your online as it should be which is free (because you pay for online already) let the third party pay for servers and not slip you the bill. You are equating two services which having nothing to do with one another. PSN Plus would be a Platinum tier to what Xbox Live Gold is, giving you more for your money. Xbox Live charges you for online gaming, period. You know full well that no one else does that, therefore,  Microsoft has got your online gaming under serious lockdown if you want to enjoy the other 50% of online gaming titles. 

50% Campaign

50% Online

Microsoft forces you to pay if you want to enjoy the latter. There is no defending it.

They've got your subscriptions under lockdown 100% if you want to use it on their OS, that is what you're paying for. You're paying to use their OS and thats all it is. You can use it for free everywhere else, except on the Xbox OS. They've got free services like Youtube under lockdown and adding it ot the price of Xbox Live, when Sony has the exact same product free.

It is curious that the only major thing Microsoft allows Silver users to do is download demos and most importantly to make purchases. 

Hilarious that you're sitting here in one paragraph justifying and "defending" a PS+ subscription service you find value in but later when it comes to another subscription service "there's no defending it". Apparently you can defend subscription services that "dangle carrots" to customers and hide features behind paywalls and charge for things other platforms don't. You just did it.



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J_Allard said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
J_Allard said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

I never said anyones gullible, you don't have to be gullible to grab a dangling carrot. It's called checkmate.

You said Live users have "been had", it's the same thing. And I'm sure you're a PS+ user so you'd know all about grabbing the carrot.


I've had Xbox Live and it ran out at the beginning of the year. I am going to get it again soon, but because my friends are getting Gears Judgement and I dont want to get cut off of the online when they start playing. I am admitting to you now that I've been had because I like Halo and Gears.  PSN Plus wasn't dangled in front of me, I like getting a good stream of discounts and new games I would never normally play (or genres I havent tried in a while like side scrollers). I didnt value PSN Plus in late 2010 (when it launched)  and wouldnt touch it with a ten foot pole until after E3 2012 when Sony overhauled it with more games and discounts to make it worth the price. Also, there is no toll, its pure choice, Sony lets you have your online as it should be which is free (because you pay for online already) let the third party pay for servers and not slip you the bill. You are equating two services which having nothing to do with one another. PSN Plus would be a Platinum tier to what Xbox Live Gold is, giving you more for your money. Xbox Live charges you for online gaming, period. You know full well that no one else does that, therefore,  Microsoft has got your online gaming under serious lockdown if you want to enjoy the other 50% of online gaming titles. 

50% Campaign

50% Online

Microsoft forces you to pay if you want to enjoy the latter. There is no defending it.

They've got your subscriptions under lockdown 100% if you want to use it on their OS, that is what you're paying for. You're paying to use their OS and thats all it is. You can use it for free everywhere else, except on the Xbox OS. They've got free services like Youtube under lockdown and adding it ot the price of Xbox Live, when Sony has the exact same product free.

It is curious that the only major thing Microsoft allows Silver users to do is download demos and most importantly to make purchases. 

Hilarious that you're sitting here in one paragraph justifying and "defending" a PS+ subscription service you find value in but later when it comes to another subscription service "there's no defending it". Apparently you can defend subscription services that "dangle carrots" to customers and hide features behind paywalls and charge for things other platforms don't. You just did it.


Dude...I hope to god you're not slow (at least im sure you're not), so I will explain this only one more time as I have to prep for professional development class. The subscriptions are for two different products giving you two different services in which one is giving you the basics and the other is a tier above a free service which already does what the other forces you to pay for:

1.  Xbox Live: Preimum service for everything you get free elsewhere and blocks your subscriptions to boot. Essentially it forces you to pay double if you want to use Microsofts closed OS.

2. PSN Plus: A tier service which gives free, discounted games, themes and more as well as a cloud saving service.

Free PSN= 90% XBOX Live Silver and Gold gives combined. 

In other words....I am not justifying anything, but rather putting things into their appropriate place. 

When I say theres no defending Microsofts blockage of online use to games, then prove me wrong. Do they allow you to use it without paying for Xbox Live? Am I wrong? If I am not...then you get 100% use of games on Xbox Live without paying for Gold. Microsoft dangles the other 50% of the value of the game you purchased at you, citing that you must pay for Xbox Live before you can use it. So what do you after you finish the campaign? PAY UP! Hell...you can't even enjoy co-op without paying them first as well online. If anything that ups the percentage of what they take away. For you to argue this is sad. If you like it...then leave it alone and dont talk about it anymore. You can butter it up as much as you want, but a pig is still a pig.



I'm skimming over the post you quoted and looking for the part where I say the services are the same and I just don't see it. Maybe you can bold it so I understand the context of that long, irrelevant tangent you went on? It doesn't matter what the services are or what they offer. If you can find value in one then any rational, mature person would understand that someone do the same to another. Or another. And so on and so forth.

And of course MS blocks the online portion of games. are u a wizard? Otherwise, what's the point? It's just like when Sony gives you "free" games but then the second you no longer subscribe, all those free games are gone. That's another one of those delicious carrots you like to talk about. If they let you keep the games then people could just subscribe whenever a huge game came out and then keep it forever. That stops the revenue from coming in. If MS allowed the most basic online play on the titles then less people would subscribe. That stops the revenue from coming in. I hope this is making sense to you. Furthermore you harp on the notion that PSN offers "90%" of what XBLG does (which is entirely subjective, I happen to think PSN is a bit of a joke). I could just as easily claim Steam does "90%" of what PS+ does and it does it for free and with much better discounts.

You don't really seem to understand the idea that other people look at things differently. "no defending" is just an opinion. You seem to be mistaking it for fact. I don't have an issue with MS locking out online play. Just like I don't have an issue with Sony locking free games when a subscription runs out. They are up front about both and you have a choice. Last time I will respond to you in this thread. If Sony tomorrow announced online play was a premium feature you'd be singing a different tune and that's sad.



J_Allard said:
I'm skimming over the post you quoted and looking for the part where I say the services are the same and I just don't see it. Maybe you can bold it so I understand the context of that long, irrelevant tangent you went on? It doesn't matter what the services are or what they offer. If you can find value in one then any rational, mature person would understand that someone do the same to another. Or another. And so on and so forth.

And of course MS blocks the online portion of games. are u a wizard? Otherwise, what's the point? It's just like when Sony gives you "free" games but then the second you no longer subscribe, all those free games are gone. That's another one of those delicious carrots you like to talk about. If they let you keep the games then people could just subscribe whenever a huge game came out and then keep it forever. That stops the revenue from coming in. If MS allowed the most basic online play on the titles then less people would subscribe. That stops the revenue from coming in. I hope this is making sense to you. Furthermore you harp on the notion that PSN offers "90%" of what XBLG does (which is entirely subjective, I happen to think PSN is a bit of a joke). I could just as easily claim Steam does "90%" of what PS+ does and it does it for free and with much better discounts.

You don't really seem to understand the idea that other people look at things differently. "no defending" is just an opinion. You seem to be mistaking it for fact. I don't have an issue with MS locking out online play. Just like I don't have an issue with Sony locking free games when a subscription runs out. They are up front about both and you have a choice. Last time I will respond to you in this thread. If Sony tomorrow announced online play was a premium feature you'd be singing a different tune and that's sad.


Whenever someone refuses to understand a point they cling to the notion that someone is going off on a tangent. I am completely on point with what I am saying. Free PSN offering 90% of what Xbox Live offers is not subjective.

Various Apps? Both have it (In fact Sony had it first)

Music services? Both have it (but on Sony you have a free trial before you pay because their is first party)

Video chat? Both have it

Messaging? Both have it

Demos, add ons and digital downloads? Both have it

Notifiers, blocking and sleeping? Both have it

In game chat? Both have it

Online gaming? Both have it

Themes? Both have it

Movie services? Both have it

Avatars? both have it

Multimedia storage for pictures and videos? Both have it.

Seasonal sales? Both have it. (In fact Sony has more even without PSN Plus)

Everything that matters and makes the HD Twins online what it is today, both consoles have on their online and there is absolutely nothing subjective about that. That is concrete and cannot be disputed. One company is forcing you to pay for it, thats all.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
J_Allard said:
I'm skimming over the post you quoted and looking for the part where I say the services are the same and I just don't see it. Maybe you can bold it so I understand the context of that long, irrelevant tangent you went on? It doesn't matter what the services are or what they offer. If you can find value in one then any rational, mature person would understand that someone do the same to another. Or another. And so on and so forth.

And of course MS blocks the online portion of games. are u a wizard? Otherwise, what's the point? It's just like when Sony gives you "free" games but then the second you no longer subscribe, all those free games are gone. That's another one of those delicious carrots you like to talk about. If they let you keep the games then people could just subscribe whenever a huge game came out and then keep it forever. That stops the revenue from coming in. If MS allowed the most basic online play on the titles then less people would subscribe. That stops the revenue from coming in. I hope this is making sense to you. Furthermore you harp on the notion that PSN offers "90%" of what XBLG does (which is entirely subjective, I happen to think PSN is a bit of a joke). I could just as easily claim Steam does "90%" of what PS+ does and it does it for free and with much better discounts.

You don't really seem to understand the idea that other people look at things differently. "no defending" is just an opinion. You seem to be mistaking it for fact. I don't have an issue with MS locking out online play. Just like I don't have an issue with Sony locking free games when a subscription runs out. They are up front about both and you have a choice. Last time I will respond to you in this thread. If Sony tomorrow announced online play was a premium feature you'd be singing a different tune and that's sad.


Whenever someone refuses to understand a point they cling to the notion that someone is going off on a tangent. I am completely on point with what I am saying. Free PSN offering 90% of what Xbox Live offers is not subjective.

Various Apps? Both have it (In fact Sony had it first)

Music services? Both have it (but on Sony you have a free trial before you pay because their is first party)

Video chat? Both have it

Messaging? Both have it

Demos, add ons and digital downloads? Both have it

Notifiers, blocking and sleeping? Both have it

In game chat? Both have it

Online gaming? Both have it

Themes? Both have it

Movie services? Both have it

Avatars? both have it

Multimedia storage for pictures and videos? Both have it.

Seasonal sales? Both have it. (In fact Sony has more even without PSN Plus)

Everything that matters and makes the HD Twins online what it is today, both consoles have on their online and there is absolutely nothing subjective about that. That is concrete and cannot be disputed. One company is forcing you to pay for it, thats all.


If that's not a slam-dunk, I don't know what is.



"Common sense is not so common." - Voltaire

Platinumed Destiny, Vanquish, Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus, Catherine, and Metal Gear Rising. Get on my level!!


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S.T.A.G.E. said:


Whenever someone refuses to understand a point they cling to the notion that someone is going off on a tangent. I am completely on point with what I am saying. Free PSN offering 90% of what Xbox Live offers is not subjective.

Various Apps? Both have it (In fact Sony had it first)

Music services? Both have it (but on Sony you have a free trial before you pay because their is first party)

Video chat? Both have it

Messaging? Both have it

Demos, add ons and digital downloads? Both have it

Notifiers, blocking and sleeping? Both have it

In game chat? Both have it

Online gaming? Both have it

Themes? Both have it

Movie services? Both have it

Avatars? both have it

Multimedia storage for pictures and videos? Both have it.

Seasonal sales? Both have it. (In fact Sony has more even without PSN Plus)

Everything that matters and makes the HD Twins online what it is today, both consoles have on their online and there is absolutely nothing subjective about that. That is concrete and cannot be disputed. One company is forcing you to pay for it, thats all.

Very well put. I hope a lot of people see this post and realize that they are paying for something that is available across other platforms for free. The only argument people can make is being able to play xbox exclusive games, that you could otherwise not play on another console for a fee, and it's a poor argument indeed.