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Forums - Sony Discussion - Are Ps4 fans getting annoyed by the "PC is better" people??.

Kasz216 on 25 February 2013
CGI-Quality said:
Kasz216 said:
CGI-Quality said:
ithis said:

I'm not so sure that your PC will continue to lead. Actually, I expect that no matter what you have in that box at home right now, if you don't upgrade it throughout the life time of the PS4, it will definitely NOT lead by it's second year, or, possibly, by launch.

Eh, I doubt the PS4 can top my current specs anytime soon, let alone what my plans are for 2014 when Maxwell technology is unleashed for GTX series. I'm not worried about it either way, though, because I'm excited for the PS4, and if games look better on it, exclusives - that is, more power to it!

But, based on  my specs right noe, which are far beyond what any next gen console will have in it, I'm not concerned about being "out-speced".

That said, what kind of Graphic Card are you running.  I've seen low and high estimates on what the PS4 could be running. (Oh found them.  Damn. Nevermind.)

GTX 690, in case you were still curious.


Yep, the whole thing argueing and "pushing for position" rather then just going with the obvious facts is just silly anyway.  As I know, even you with your beastily graphics card would agree.   Realistic Graphics aren't what's most important.

Alien Coloniol Marines wouldn't be any better of a game even if it had photorealistic graphics that made it look exactly like the movies.

People should focus less on tech specs most people don't fully understand anyway, and focus more on what matters.  Shown games, and further games expected to show up.

THAT is what people should be excited for.  I've yet to see people talk about the possibilties for Gran Tursimo 6... and that's a real shame. 



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Cub on 25 February 2013
Kasz216 said:
Michelasso said:
Kasz216 said:

That's because using GDDR5 for CPU use would be stupid since it's less effective then DDR3 for CPU use and more expensive.

Had Sony been planning 8 Gigs of Ram from the start they likely would of went with 4GB of GDDR5 and 4 of DDR3. 

The upgrade is likely just going to inclde bigger sticks of GDDR5 in the slots the original 4GB were going to be.

Also, the insults would be over the top even if you knew what you were talking about.


I know very much what I am talking about, thank you. GDDR5 has a much higher bandwidth which is beneficial for graphics, and higher latency, which is not good for general purposes computing. Still the PS4 is more or less a single purpose device. It's main job is to run video games, it doesn't have to run crap like MS Office.

In other terms it means that the few general purposes PS4 jobs, like access to the PS Store, sharing, web browsing, etc will be slower than in a PC, but not that much either, since the huge bottleneck is the network banwidth. Few specific tasks in the video games code may have a slowdown as well, but pretty much irrelevant compared to the benefit of moving large chuncks of high res textures and similar from a place to another and computing them. Also because the CPU makes good use of its L1 to L3 caches. In other words, for a video game console (and maybe only for it) to use an unified GDDR5 RAM as system memory as well is pretty much beneficial.

Last but not least Sony planned a GDDR5 only system since the beginning. The only thing that changed compared to the previous development consoles has been that such RAM doubled in size. To add DDR3 RAM would have meant to redesign the whole thing. Which is the reason why MS is too late to catch up (if the rumors about the next box having 8GB of DDR3 RAM and 32MB of ESRAM are correct like they were for the PS4 architecture).

Also, since when offending trolls is unpolite? Are you one of them to take offence? :p

That's exactly what I said... had you bothered to read.  Hence why they don't have any DDR3, when the PS4 would  work better with 6 GDDR and 2 DDR3.

As for the above... you wouldn't need any more GDDR5 then you would on the graphics card to get any benefit out of it.  That's why you don't see ANY computer architecture out there for it.  It has no use... even if you wanted your PC to be purely dedicated for it.  Otherwise you'd see at least some computer designs that would.

Since the PS3 is essentially the same as a computer with an integrated graphics card.  (Though a much better one then currently offered integrated graphics cards.)

Having no DDR3 won't hurt a gaming machine much,(but does some) it doesn't help it however.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515109

Is pretty informative on the whole thing... since our resident tech expert mod has more or less said "Fuck me, personally explaining stuff since it will just frustrate me because nobody is going to listen and continue to talk nonsense anyway. "

 

and Flaming people have been against forum rules, for like... forever.  Calling people trolls as well.  You may want to review forum rules if you want to stick around the website for a while.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/forum-rules.php#content

neogaf link was a great read, thanks a bunch.



Michelasso on 26 February 2013
Kasz216 said:

That's exactly what I said... had you bothered to read.  Hence why they don't have any DDR3, when the PS4 would  work better with 6 GDDR and 2 DDR3.

As for the above... you wouldn't need any more GDDR5 then you would on the graphics card to get any benefit out of it.  That's why you don't see ANY computer architecture out there for it.  It has no use... even if you wanted your PC to be purely dedicated for it.  Otherwise you'd see at least some computer designs that would.

Since the PS3 is essentially the same as a computer with an integrated graphics card.  (Though a much better one then currently offered integrated graphics cards.)

Having no DDR3 won't hurt a gaming machine much,(but does some) it doesn't help it however.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=515109

Is pretty informative on the whole thing... since our resident tech expert mod has more or less said "Fuck me, personally explaining stuff since it will just frustrate me because nobody is going to listen and continue to talk nonsense anyway. "

 

and Flaming people have been against forum rules, for like... forever.  Calling people trolls as well.  You may want to review forum rules if you want to stick around the website for a while.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/forum-rules.php#content

You don't see any PC architecture with only GDDR5 RAM because that RAM is much more expensive. Also PCs are modular, so it is a more cost effective approach to split the RAM and in case to upgrade one piece (DDR3 RAM) or another (graphics card with GPU and GDDR5). 

Consoles instead are closed boxes. Once they are out they stay the same forever. Thus it makes sense to go straight with an unified RAM architecture. Out of those 8GB most games at the beginning will use 4 or 5 GB the most. The rest will be unused by programs (games). Just a buffer/cache for I/O. But with time games will get bigger and the PS4 will have already the GDDR5 RAM needed to accomodate their graphics data, the one taking most of the space.

Sony has been bashed already for its split RAM approach in the PS3. They didn't want to follow that road anymore. Now the PS4 has plenty of unified memory to accomodate any game for a long time. CPU computation will be slower, and the cost raises, but it is a good design for a product that is meant to last 10 years. Because, unlike PCs, consoles must be designed for a long longevity. That's why it is laughable when people ask to use GDDR5 system RAM on their PCs. There was sarcasm in what I wrote.

As for the flaming, I never mentioned PC gamers, I always wrote "PC trolls". Trolls are the beasts of the internet, I just defined them for what they are. Anyone taking offence in those words must have a guilty conscience. 



Kasz216 on 26 February 2013
Cub said:

neogaf link was a great read, thanks a bunch.


Yeah, i'm shocked, but I guess tech stuff is one of those things they can do well thanks to actually having a decent amount of tech guys there. 

It's helpful because we seemingly don't have many tech people here or they just get tired of dealing with people treating every tech spech like it's "Blast Processing".   No offense what with the Sonic avatar.

Either way, the GDDR5 will likely be supeiror then equal DDR3 on most games, however there are some CPU intensive games where it can slip in comparison.

That said, i'd be shocked if PS4/720 games are half as different as they are today.  With both having similar architecture they should hopefully end up being about as different as two near identical PC rigs running different hardware on the same tier level.



zuvuyeay on 26 February 2013

no it doesn't bother me,the PC is better than Nintendo and Microsoft too,i'll be getting a PS4 and I haven't been running around saying this and that,the PC I have been looking to buy will cost me £1000 but since I have had to buy this new laptop it will have to wait now and I think I will buy parts in myself now andtry to build it myself too which means it will be cheaper if it ever works

I haven't been around for the unveiling but saw the specs and stuff and to be honest the amount of ram pleases me for next gen as I think it will improve the online experience for rpg's,sci-fi's and such with nice open fantasy worlds to mingle in which is what I like

same for xbox,console developers always seem to squeeze what they can out of the other stuff



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Alby_da_Wolf on 26 February 2013

I'm a PC gamer, but I think both actual PS4 specs and rumoured XB720 ones are very good news for PC gaming, as they'll help establish a good and uniform HW requirement for games. PC gamers are free to go higher, if they want, but what's very important is that with more than enough minimum RAM available, we won't see anymore crippled multiplat games. Also, while my tech heart would have preferred MS and Sony to choose POWER architecture, choosing a x86-64 and very PC-like one will ease ports, making viable more multiplats that in the past would have remained PC-only or console-only, due to the audience on the secondary platform not being large enough to justify port costs.

This said, we PC gamers often like to show this condescending mannerism, just to piss you console gamers off!



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Cub on 26 February 2013
Kasz216 said:
Cub said:
 

neogaf link was a great read, thanks a bunch.


Yeah, i'm shocked, but I guess tech stuff is one of those things they can do well thanks to actually having a decent amount of tech guys there. 

It's helpful because we seemingly don't have many tech people here or they just get tired of dealing with people treating every tech spech like it's "Blast Processing".   No offense what with the Sonic avatar.

Either way, the GDDR5 will likely be supeiror then equal DDR3 on most games, however there are some CPU intensive games where it can slip in comparison.

That said, i'd be shocked if PS4/720 games are half as different as they are today.  With both having similar architecture they should hopefully end up being about as different as two near identical PC rigs running different hardware on the same tier level.

I understand, I think I should lurk neogaf more, if 10% of the topics are as good as the one you linked then wow! I would love to know how RAM can affect games in aspects other than graphics, like A.I., or is that a CPU thing?

Actually, I am still hoping we get a clear winner lol, if they turn out as close as it was this generation the forums will be flooded with useless comparisons.