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Forums - General - What Developed Country do you Envy? (Finals)

 

What Developed Country do you Envy?

Australia 10 18.87%
 
Canada 5 9.43%
 
Denmark 0 0%
 
Germany 6 11.32%
 
Japan 10 18.87%
 
Norway 3 5.66%
 
Sweden 4 7.55%
 
United Kingdom 3 5.66%
 
USA 1 1.89%
 
See Results 11 20.75%
 
Total:53
Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

The Great Melting Pot of America is one of my favorite things about. So many people from so many other cultures coming together to make a new culture.


Huh? You make it sound like no other country embraces multiculturalism.

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly interpret what he said the way you interpreted it.

You're right. Melting pot theory is a LOT more intolerable towards different cultures when compared to multiculturalism.



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fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

I can't tip my hat just yet because your list isn't talking about the kind of melting pot I'm talking about. Let's take your list's Number 1 most "diverse" nation, Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is comprised of Pashtun 42%, Tajik 27%, Hazara 9%, Uzbek 9%, Aimak 4%, Turkmen 3%, Baloch 2%, other 4%.

Those are all groups that have more in common than they have differences. That's not the kind of diversity I was talking about. I was talking about how the USA is made up of people from so many different nations of who's nations are made up of so many different cultures and subcultures.

The USA ranks low on your list because it it's so much broader that it gets simplified to white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61.

What does "white" or "black" mean? To your list it just means that, people of European and African descent. But you and I both know that broad terms like White or Black or Asian can mean hundreds of thousands of different cultures.

Can you imagine the list of cultures within the USA if it was given the specifics that the Afghanistan data was? It's almost impossible to even collect that amount of data. The US Census just asks for race, but the Afghanistan list shows nationality. All the people of the Afghanistan list would get lumped into the USA's data as one statistic.

But on top of that. I was really talking about how the USA's larger culture is a sum of it's parts. The Great Melting Pot of the USA is so grand that today we live in a county that looks like a snapshot of the entire planet, culturally speaking.

 

 

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_eth_gro-people-ethnic-groups


So that's one example, now if you can provide examplesfor all other countries above the US in cultural diversity, then you might be on to something.

On top of this, the "melting pot" concept is actually seen as intolerable towards other cultures, because the concept is that cultures mix to form ONE culture, and is AGAINST diversity. Multiculturalism aims to preserve cultures and build tolerance between them. See melting pot vs multiculturalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

In America we want everyone to be themselves as well as be American. That's not the same as making everyone turn away from their heritage and a white picket fence. That's why we don't want schools teaching in Spanish or French. We want our citizens to be American first and have their own thing going on too. US culture is a mix of assimilation and multiculturalism. When I used the term "Melting Pot" I was not referring to the outdated viewpoint that everyone coming to the USA should cast away their name. I was referring to the present day tolerant view that we can be American and still keep our unique cultural traditions. Within reason. I mean we don't allow honor killings and stuff like that.

The majority of American does not believe in the open boarders and anything goes that hardcore Multiculturalists want. American loves its "Americaness" and we know that it's the mix of cultures that makes it so American. That's what I was referring to. The term "Melting Pot" may be an outdated choices of words, but now you know what I meant.



kain_kusanagi said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

I can't tip my hat just yet because your list isn't talking about the kind of melting pot I'm talking about. Let's take your list's Number 1 most "diverse" nation, Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is comprised of Pashtun 42%, Tajik 27%, Hazara 9%, Uzbek 9%, Aimak 4%, Turkmen 3%, Baloch 2%, other 4%.

Those are all groups that have more in common than they have differences. That's not the kind of diversity I was talking about. I was talking about how the USA is made up of people from so many different nations of who's nations are made up of so many different cultures and subcultures.

The USA ranks low on your list because it it's so much broader that it gets simplified to white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61.

What does "white" or "black" mean? To your list it just means that, people of European and African descent. But you and I both know that broad terms like White or Black or Asian can mean hundreds of thousands of different cultures.

Can you imagine the list of cultures within the USA if it was given the specifics that the Afghanistan data was? It's almost impossible to even collect that amount of data. The US Census just asks for race, but the Afghanistan list shows nationality. All the people of the Afghanistan list would get lumped into the USA's data as one statistic.

But on top of that. I was really talking about how the USA's larger culture is a sum of it's parts. The Great Melting Pot of the USA is so grand that today we live in a county that looks like a snapshot of the entire planet, culturally speaking.

 

 

Source: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_eth_gro-people-ethnic-groups


So that's one example, now if you can provide examplesfor all other countries above the US in cultural diversity, then you might be on to something.

On top of this, the "melting pot" concept is actually seen as intolerable towards other cultures, because the concept is that cultures mix to form ONE culture, and is AGAINST diversity. Multiculturalism aims to preserve cultures and build tolerance between them. See melting pot vs multiculturalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

In America we want everyone to be themselves as well as be American. That's not the same as making everyone turn away from their heritage and a white picket fence. That's why we don't want schools teaching in Spanish or French. We want our citizens to be American first and have their own thing going on too. US culture is a mix of assimilation and multiculturalism. When I used the term "Melting Pot" I was not referring to the outdated viewpoint that everyone coming to the USA should cast away their name. I was referring to the present day tolerant view that we can be American and still keep our unique cultural traditions. Within reason. I mean we don't allow honor killings and stuff like that.

The majority of American does not believe in the open boarders and anything goes that hardcore Multiculturalists want. American loves its "Americaness" and we know that it's the mix of cultures that makes it so American. That's what I was referring to. The term "Melting Pot" may be an outdated choices of words, but now you know what I meant.

Your argument fails to recognise that a multicultural society also embraces similar. Despite a mix of different cultures, their common trait is the ideals that they all embrace: tolerance for all cultures. America has YET to formally adopt a multiculturalism in any policy at the federal level. The first to do so was Canada, followed by Australia in the 1970s.

Fear of open borders policy extends towards melting pot theory, on the basis of fear of BEING assimilated rather than assimilating others, once another culture becomes too common. In a multicultural society, this is not the case. That's why you'll find that many who support melting pot do not want open borders, and those who support multiculturalism are indifferent towards it.

However, boasting that America "engulfs" other cultures isn't exactly a positive thing when talking about cultural diversity, you know...



kain_kusanagi said:
phinch1 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

The Great Melting Pot of America is one of my favorite things about. So many people from so many other cultures coming together to make a new culture.


Huh? You make it sound like no other country embraces multiculturalism.


America has one of if not the richest history of immigration. Sure lots of nations embrace their multiculturalism, but if you could give an example of even one country with a more diverse population I'd tip my hat to you.

 


England, it's pretty much like America in terms of muticultiralism except its been happening for thousands of more years......lol

 

+ I can go to a shooting range, go to burger king and play halo 4 and drink mountain dew if i really wanted too

You and I both know that if you wanted to shoot a gun you would have to do a hell of a lot more than I would. For me it's as simple as unlocking my gun safe, driving to an outdoor area and setting up some targets. If you really wanted to shoot a gun, you will need to jump through a lot of hoops and it won't be your gun, unless you have an extremely restricted license and are a member of sanctioned club.

As for my examples of Burger King, Halo 4, etc. Those are just some examples of great stuff born in the USA that I enjoy.

I just listed a bunch of stuff that is as American as Hotdogs and Baseball. Sure you can buy a hotdog in Germany and watch baseball in Japan, but you know what I mean.

 


As american as baseball? or as English as rounders? haha, i have hotdogs in my fridge now......but still you havnt tipped your hat to me ;)

Romans. In 250AD

Rome sent a contingent of black legionnaires, drawn from the African part of the empire, to stand guard on Hadrian’s Wall.Romans finally quit in the fifth century, the way was clear for the-Germanic tribes that would slowly become the English.

Four hundred years after the Jutes, Angles and Saxons colonised modern-day southern England, the Vikings arrived, bringing a distinctive new influence to the cultural pot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm

ill post the link theres too much to write



Well, I'm from Argentina, and I really like living here. It's not been thbe best years for us ultimately tbh,but I can't complain. We don't have severe drug problems, we don't have school massacres, there's plenty of work, tons of excellent food and variety, beautiful, big cities and a los of natural landscapes, natural resources... The only thing I hate is that we are not a relevant market for video games, so they don't take us seriously and it's kind of expensive to be a gamer here. For the rest, I'm really happy with living here?



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phinch1 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
phinch1 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

The Great Melting Pot of America is one of my favorite things about. So many people from so many other cultures coming together to make a new culture.


Huh? You make it sound like no other country embraces multiculturalism.


America has one of if not the richest history of immigration. Sure lots of nations embrace their multiculturalism, but if you could give an example of even one country with a more diverse population I'd tip my hat to you.

 


England, it's pretty much like America in terms of muticultiralism except its been happening for thousands of more years......lol

 

+ I can go to a shooting range, go to burger king and play halo 4 and drink mountain dew if i really wanted too

You and I both know that if you wanted to shoot a gun you would have to do a hell of a lot more than I would. For me it's as simple as unlocking my gun safe, driving to an outdoor area and setting up some targets. If you really wanted to shoot a gun, you will need to jump through a lot of hoops and it won't be your gun, unless you have an extremely restricted license and are a member of sanctioned club.

As for my examples of Burger King, Halo 4, etc. Those are just some examples of great stuff born in the USA that I enjoy.

I just listed a bunch of stuff that is as American as Hotdogs and Baseball. Sure you can buy a hotdog in Germany and watch baseball in Japan, but you know what I mean.

 


As american as baseball? or as English as rounders? haha, i have hotdogs in my fridge now......but still you havnt tipped your hat to me ;)

Romans. In 250AD

Rome sent a contingent of black legionnaires, drawn from the African part of the empire, to stand guard on Hadrian’s Wall.Romans finally quit in the fifth century, the way was clear for the-Germanic tribes that would slowly become the English.

Four hundred years after the Jutes, Angles and Saxons colonised modern-day southern England, the Vikings arrived, bringing a distinctive new influence to the cultural pot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/short_history_of_immigration.stm

ill post the link theres too much to write

The small city state home to the Vatican is all that's left of the Roman Empire. My hat remains in its previous angle.

As for baseball and hotdogs. You still don't get what I was talking about or you are intentionally being obtuse. Either way I'm not going to explain it again.



KHlover said:
Michael-5 said:
KHlover said:
Michael-5 said:


Yea so then, anything North of Germany, including Germany is an ideal place for me then. I'd have to go there and decide first hand if I were to move, I know too little about Scandinavian and Germany society to be able to make a decision like that now, and I'd have to learn a new language, so that plays a card too (German sounds scary LOL).

Trust me, it only sounds scary on the internet. For example, "Schmetterling" actually is a nice word - IF YOU DONT SCREAM IT LIKE A RETARD!!!!!

I'd have to go there and see it. From what I hear RamStein songs are about making Toys in a factory and watching the snow fall and peacefull things and......it's hard rock.

Regardless, I'd rather learn German then live in Italy, or even move to the USA LOL

Haha, as a german it is really amusing to hear that Rammstein is actually used to measure how hard the german language sounds :D

Here is a more relaxing song for you :D

Yea, see this is why I'd have to go to Germany, it sounds a lot better in that song. I think because I'm Ukrainian, and understand most serbian languages (especially Polish, which gets a lot of german influences), it wouldn't be too hard to learn German.

LOL, whenever Ithink of Germany, I just picture Arnold Schwarzenegger yelling.



Maybe this is why crime rates are so low in Germany, German cops yelling is scarier then guns LOL.

Nah, I'm sure Germany is awesome, I was talking with my gf and she thinks it's one of the best places in the world too.



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Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

The Great Melting Pot of America is one of my favorite things about. So many people from so many other cultures coming together to make a new culture.


Huh? You make it sound like no other country embraces multiculturalism.

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly interpret what he said the way you interpreted it.

You're right. Melting pot theory is a LOT more intolerable towards different cultures when compared to multiculturalism.

I disagree.  It's impossible to have multiculturalism without some degree of melting together taking place. 

It's pre-1970 attitudes like that that encourages intolerance for cultural difference from both sides. As such, you'll notice that the "melting pot" theory has been scrapped in favour of "salad bowl". I encourage you to research the benfits of the latter over the former, and see the many examples where it has been a tremendous success. (Toronto, Melbourne, etc.) 



Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
Miguel_Zorro said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:

The Great Melting Pot of America is one of my favorite things about. So many people from so many other cultures coming together to make a new culture.


Huh? You make it sound like no other country embraces multiculturalism.

I'm not sure how anyone could possibly interpret what he said the way you interpreted it.

You're right. Melting pot theory is a LOT more intolerable towards different cultures when compared to multiculturalism.

I disagree.  It's impossible to have multiculturalism without some degree of melting together taking place. 

It's pre-1970 attitudes like that that encourages intolerance for cultural difference from both sides. As such, you'll notice that the "melting pot" theory has been scrapped in favour of "salad bowl". I encourage you to research the benfits of the latter over the former, and see the many examples where it has been a tremendous success. (Toronto, Melbourne, etc.) 

I encourage you to learn about Toronto before citing it as a reason to imply that somebody is intolerant or say they have a pre-1970 attitude.  Have you ever been there?

Think about the term "melting pot" and what it implies. Your attitude would have people segregated into a bunch of little ethnic enclaves, never interacting with other ethnicities.  That's not the way it works, at least in a city like Toronto. 


Once again, do some research before making wild assumptions about multiculturalism. Multiculturalism does NOT require segregation, and on top of that, interaction between cultures does NOT imply an erosion of cultures. That's where your fallacy lies.



Michael-5 said:
gergroy said:
Michael-5 said:
Zappykins said:
Michael-5 said:

Why are some Americans so stupid? I've been reading this book called "A Peoples History of the United States." and it's pretty interesting. I think Southern Americans got used to slaves a couple hundred years ago, and when slavery was suddenly abolished, they just never stopped being lazy. Give them a book, and proper education, and I think they could be just as smart as us.

Jay520 said:
Not Canada

Not the question, but....LOL. Yea, alright.

There some sort of Pride at being ignorant with many Americans (US Citizens).  I find it a rather odd and baffling thing.   A number of people are arrogant and proud of the fact they know little of the outside world. 

I remember I was scheduling something in Ohio and it was a Friday and they asked me to come back on Monday, cause their computer was down, or something like that.  I said, "I will be out of State next Week."

The lady looked at my with a outraged concern and said, "Why would anyone ever want to do that?!?"  (she was serious.)

Now it isn't all of them by any means.  But a number do not want their ideas that they have the best of everything be challenged by learning about other places.

LMFAO, yea I've heard that a lot when I went on trips to the USA, typically Georgia has a lot of this attitude.

Making these threads, I aprreciate Europe so much more. I honestly don't min Canada, but I wish we had more then just USA as our neighbours. I wish Russia never sold Alaska, just so we couldn't have more culture.

This is why I really appreciate Montreal, it's at least different, very similar to Europe (But not France... :-/) I just wish we had more countries because there is just so much more diversity. I wish North America was civilized like Europe, but instead because USA is so mega-corporate, were kinda just sitting on the sides, away from everyone.

seriously guys?  you are trying to stereotype something so incredibly diverse as American culture?  My next door neighbors are immigrants from Iran.  The people across the street are from Germany.  Two doors down is a mexican family.  They are all American!

USA is a melting pot of cultures, how you could stereotype it is beyond me, because it only makes you seem ignorant.  Same could be said for pretty much any country or people, stereotypes are a poor way of talking about a culture.

Were not stereotyping, if you clearly look at the very very first post, it specifically states some americans. Yes you have a Mexican, a German, and whatever on your street, but chances are the person operating the teller at WalGreens is completly daft.

In USA you see a lot of arrogent people, who have never left the country, but insist that USA is the best.

You also get a high % of brain dead people, specifically in rural towns in the south (Omg....I have a story for when my car broke down in hicktown New York, and my sister was naming the pimples on the mechanics face...She's not a child, he was just really ugly).

Ahh...anyway, enough US mockery, we could do this for too long.



P.S. I just want to mention something. You know the Internet Top Level Domains (TLDs), such as .uk and .ca? I bet if I went down the street in the USA and asked them what their TLD is, they would say .com LOL Americans are so arrogent, they think every company is American, so the .com domain is American. It's .us, and I'm glad to see a lot of international companies with headquarters in the USA starting to have a country/region directory on the main page when you type www.___.com


Firstly: I think the proper term would be ignorant. Most people wouldn't think a company is American because of arrogance. (assuming you meant to type arrogant.)

Secondly: Stereotyping 300 million people is... ignorant. Or ill-founded prejudice.

Thirdly: Reported. I find you're attitude versus America... distasteful.

 

OT:  I would want to live in the UK. I envy there gun laws/attutide.