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Forums - Gaming - UPDATED!!! People like second hand games but software companies can't handle the cost.

 

What should be done?

Nothing, just as long my ... 94 64.38%
 
Block second hand use. only internet access. 8 5.48%
 
Include code with game to... 44 30.14%
 
Total:146
spaceguy said:
binary solo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Nothing. I own the stuff I buy. It's my right to sell it, trade, keep it, modify it, or burn it in a toaster.

If dev's can't handle the cost of making a game I suggest they stop spending millions developing AAA gambles. If it's unproven do it indie style. That means do the gameplay right, but don't spend too much on presentation. It works in the film industry.

I'm tired of everyone saying that poor game publishers are losing half their money to used game sales. Bullshit! Every industry has used sales yet only video game companies are hurt by them?

The only different between the video game industry and all the others is that they have spent that last decade tricking people into thinking that we don't own the stuff we buy. They did it little by little. First it was Digital Distribution, then it was Online Passes, and now they want to take all our ownership rights and expect us to let it happen because we shouldn't buy used anyway.

Don't let them fool you.

This +1 million.

Online pass I'm OK with if it's to allow use of online play. It costs to maintain online gaming services so everyone who plays a game should share in those costs. If you buy new, then the price you pay goes towards maintaining online gameplay, if you buy used then you should pay your fair share. $5-$10 is fair pay for that sort of access.

I say if retailers are making profits from used games then some of that coin can go to the publisher. It's really one big business screwing over another, so the big boys should fight it out themselves.

Also it's not only game software developers and publishers who have been playing the "you don't own it" game producers of accounting and small business software do the same thing. You don't own that copy of small business accounting software you paid hundreds of dollars for, and we'll take you to court if you try to sell it to someone else even if you never use it and it's remained in its sealed packaging. Oh, and no returns either.

Exactly.

But I don't agree with your solution of a code that locks all game content to a single account / console and someone having to buy and put in a code to get past the title screen.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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spaceguy said:

I get  your point but I see this all the time with younger people like my brother. Your thoughts are only your interpretation of whats happening it's not everyone else's. So in a sense your just guessing whats going on. So my anecdotal evidence has just as much worth as yours.

Before gamestop, software companies didn't have the problems they have today. Also cost where lower. So the only other option is to raise cost or code the game. I rather pay less because people are to cheap to buy new.

I'm curious about how old you are.

I remember buying used games for the Atari 2600. The used game market has been around for a long, long time. It wasn't a "problem" until about 2007. Gamestop had been doing their deals well before then, too.

Games have become a lot more like the majority of Sitcoms - you watch an episode once, and then you have no interest in watching it again. There's nothing more to be gained from it, and so reruns are pretty much useless. People get excited about watching an episode the first time, but find it boring the second time around.

There are games from the NES era that people still play today. Many more are still within the owners' collections, where they're not willing to sell them unless they have to, because they feel like they might want to play them again some day. Now look at today - you play Far Cry 3, and you pretty much get the entire experience in the first play through. You beat the game, and go "OK, what game do I want next?" And online doesn't help, because the online is pretty much the same in one FPS as the next.

When you play Mario Galaxy, you beat the game once, then go back and try to get all of the stars you missed, to find secrets, etc.

Next time you visit Gamestop, have a look in the used game sections, and take note of what you see. In the 360 and PS3 sections, you'll find an array of games released a couple of months ago, many of them major titles. In the Wii section, you'll find mostly older mid-quality games, and cruddy games that just keep dropping in price because people don't want those specific games. You may find one or two copies of major Wii titles, but they'll be the exception.

Why the difference? Is it because people who buy Wii games are more attached to their games? Is it because people who buy Wii games aren't as careful with their money? Or is it because a lot of Wii games are made to be kept?

My evidence was neither speculative nor anecdotal. It was logic plus an understanding of human behaviour. It was understanding of the game market, and an awareness of sales patterns seen of games on the various platforms. Why is it that Wii titles so often had long tails, while 360 and PS3 titles typically were heavily front-loaded, with 90%+ of sales happening within the first month or so? It's because gamers buying Wii titles kept their games, and so gamers buying the game later had to go with new copies, while 360 and PS3 owners were trading their games in like there was no tomorrow, providing a strong and dominating used game market for later buyers to make use of.

This isn't a guess, it's fact. And the difference in development costs is also well-established fact.



I think its the small AA titles that effected.

Games like vanquished, Beyonetta, Darksiders, Oddysey to the west...



binary solo said:
spaceguy said:
binary solo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Nothing. I own the stuff I buy. It's my right to sell it, trade, keep it, modify it, or burn it in a toaster.

If dev's can't handle the cost of making a game I suggest they stop spending millions developing AAA gambles. If it's unproven do it indie style. That means do the gameplay right, but don't spend too much on presentation. It works in the film industry.

I'm tired of everyone saying that poor game publishers are losing half their money to used game sales. Bullshit! Every industry has used sales yet only video game companies are hurt by them?

The only different between the video game industry and all the others is that they have spent that last decade tricking people into thinking that we don't own the stuff we buy. They did it little by little. First it was Digital Distribution, then it was Online Passes, and now they want to take all our ownership rights and expect us to let it happen because we shouldn't buy used anyway.

Don't let them fool you.

This +1 million.

Online pass I'm OK with if it's to allow use of online play. It costs to maintain online gaming services so everyone who plays a game should share in those costs. If you buy new, then the price you pay goes towards maintaining online gameplay, if you buy used then you should pay your fair share. $5-$10 is fair pay for that sort of access.

I say if retailers are making profits from used games then some of that coin can go to the publisher. It's really one big business screwing over another, so the big boys should fight it out themselves.

Also it's not only game software developers and publishers who have been playing the "you don't own it" game producers of accounting and small business software do the same thing. You don't own that copy of small business accounting software you paid hundreds of dollars for, and we'll take you to court if you try to sell it to someone else even if you never use it and it's remained in its sealed packaging. Oh, and no returns either.

Exactly.

But I don't agree with your solution of a code that locks all game content to a single account / console and someone having to buy and put in a code to get past the title screen.



Well tell me your idea. I'm just trying to see the idea's that people come up with. There is a big issue and something has to break and if it doesn't go the way of the developers, we will not have that many developers left and game selection will suffer the most. We will get COD 10 times a year, just different companies.



I NEVER trade in or sell my games (unless I hated them). I still have all my N64, GameCube, Wii, Gameboy and DS games and ill be keeping my WiiU, 3DS and PS3 games too. I love having collections and like another poster said sometimes you really want to play the older game again and the way you did before. Plus Nintendo's first party games are too awesome, there genuinely is no reason I'd want to no longer have them.



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Aielyn said:
spaceguy said:

I get  your point but I see this all the time with younger people like my brother. Your thoughts are only your interpretation of whats happening it's not everyone else's. So in a sense your just guessing whats going on. So my anecdotal evidence has just as much worth as yours.

Before gamestop, software companies didn't have the problems they have today. Also cost where lower. So the only other option is to raise cost or code the game. I rather pay less because people are to cheap to buy new.

I'm curious about how old you are.

I remember buying used games for the Atari 2600. The used game market has been around for a long, long time. It wasn't a "problem" until about 2007. Gamestop had been doing their deals well before then, too.

Games have become a lot more like the majority of Sitcoms - you watch an episode once, and then you have no interest in watching it again. There's nothing more to be gained from it, and so reruns are pretty much useless. People get excited about watching an episode the first time, but find it boring the second time around.

There are games from the NES era that people still play today. Many more are still within the owners' collections, where they're not willing to sell them unless they have to, because they feel like they might want to play them again some day. Now look at today - you play Far Cry 3, and you pretty much get the entire experience in the first play through. You beat the game, and go "OK, what game do I want next?" And online doesn't help, because the online is pretty much the same in one FPS as the next.

When you play Mario Galaxy, you beat the game once, then go back and try to get all of the stars you missed, to find secrets, etc.

Next time you visit Gamestop, have a look in the used game sections, and take note of what you see. In the 360 and PS3 sections, you'll find an array of games released a couple of months ago, many of them major titles. In the Wii section, you'll find mostly older mid-quality games, and cruddy games that just keep dropping in price because people don't want those specific games. You may find one or two copies of major Wii titles, but they'll be the exception.

Why the difference? Is it because people who buy Wii games are more attached to their games? Is it because people who buy Wii games aren't as careful with their money? Or is it because a lot of Wii games are made to be kept?

My evidence was neither speculative nor anecdotal. It was logic plus an understanding of human behaviour. It was understanding of the game market, and an awareness of sales patterns seen of games on the various platforms. Why is it that Wii titles so often had long tails, while 360 and PS3 titles typically were heavily front-loaded, with 90%+ of sales happening within the first month or so? It's because gamers buying Wii titles kept their games, and so gamers buying the game later had to go with new copies, while 360 and PS3 owners were trading their games in like there was no tomorrow, providing a strong and dominating used game market for later buyers to make use of.

This isn't a guess, it's fact. And the difference in development costs is also well-established fact.



Wii titles sold a lot because the system was on fire and there where more customers than used gear and yes I have seen many used wii games. You are quessing whats going on, It's not fact. Your facts are all speculative and from your anecdotal evidence. The point being software developers shouldn't have to sacrifice and make a sh-tty game. All it takes is one game to tank a software company. I do lights, sound and productions on the side. I have a lot of great shows but always have one bad one out of the bunch, however that won't ruin me and used to not ruin software companies but with high cost of developement it is. So your think we should pay $100 dollars a game or have wii graphics and short games. I'm sorry but people are not all you, we don't all like the same games.

Sorry but the bottom part is not fact, it is your take of how the business is working. I run a business and I'm over 30, I own over 84 360 games and I own a wii, Wii u and already own 4 games for that. I don't sell back my games.

 

Edit: Most people who own Wii also where to young to even think of trading games in. Just had to add that.



Majora said:
I NEVER trade in or sell my games (unless I hated them). I still have all my N64, GameCube, Wii, Gameboy and DS games and ill be keeping my WiiU, 3DS and PS3 games too. I love having collections and like another poster said sometimes you really want to play the older game again and the way you did before. Plus Nintendo's first party games are too awesome, there genuinely is no reason I'd want to no longer have them.



Same here. I also collect special editions if I really like the game. I have gamer room with glass shelving holding it all up. I'm glad there I people Like you and who want to support the companies that we like, howevr there are many that just don't understand the effects their choices are having.



If companies can't deal with the losses second hand gaming provides, how come they are still here after 30 years? Second hand gaming has always been here, as have many companies



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

the2real4mafol said:
If companies can't deal with the losses second hand gaming provides, how come they are still here after 30 years? Second hand gaming has always been here, as have many companies


Oh cost is way different and so is the whole scene.  Not saying they can't deal with it and this is how they will. Either they raise costs of games or knock out gamestop. I hope gamestop. Funk those guys. LOL



spaceguy said:

Oh and to prove I don't sell back my games or just to make you really jealous. LOL

Man....And I thought my pile of (original) Xbox games was big back before I found out I could trade games in. All i can say is you must not be short of cash if you can horde all those games plus all the collector's edition figures and such you have there.