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Forums - Sony - Why PSABR, Twisted Metal and Starhawk flopped

PSABR flopped because half of the roster was full of nobodies or people nobody cared about. There was no Solid Snake or Cloud for example.

Twisted Metal flopped because noody had cared about that series in 10 years.

Starhawk flopped because nobody ever cared about that to begin with, the only reason Warhawk sold was because this was back when PS3 had no games.



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Kresnik said:
Player2 said:

You're ignoring the budget of those games and how much some of them have made in the arcades.


We don't really know the budget for any of those games, do we?

You're right about forgetting about arcades though, I guess!

Without the budgets we don't know if money was made or lost and therefore we cannot say if they flopped or not. The closest thing we have are the news about Sony cutting ties with Superbot and all that which aren't good news. If money was made then they wouldn't have done that.

If we are talking about expected sales then we know that SFxT and TTT2 underperformed.



osed125 said:
JoeTheBro said:
PSASBR was amazing and has sold over half a million copies. Nuff said.

You know 500k units is pretty low for a AAA game right?

LOL. Since when was All-Stars AAA? Just because it featured characters from AAA games doesn't make it AAA.



JoeTheBro said:
PSASBR was amazing and has sold over half a million copies. Nuff said.


It is amazing. It is fun to play with friends. BUT it does lack content (more arenas and characters, game modes, etc.). And it lacks Final Fantasy.



J_Allard said:
Sony marketed Twisted Metal. I remember commercials and ads on plenty of gaming websites. Plus they had that live video feed on the TM website where you could literally take control of this machine gun they had set up in the desert, and shoot the **** out of a Sweet Tooth truck.


was the commercial aired on TV?

 

if so, could you please give me a link to it?

 

here is an example of a Twisted Metal commercial

 



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Yeah they could have been better, but they do deserve better sales. I don't know about starhawk though I didn't buy it.



techhunter80 said:

enditall727 said:

MARCUSDJACKSON said:
enditall727 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
enditall727 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
flops are based on expectations, and my expectations were just about what these games sold. all managed over 200k with twisted Metal doing 250k first wk i think.

i only saw advertisement for Twisted Metal, so Sony failed to advertise Starhawk and Sony All Starz.


they advertised Twisted Metal? i searched and never found a commercial for the game.

 

you must be talking about those little "out now" images that pop up on sites like here(vgchartz)?

nooooooooooooooo i don't pay attention to those advertisments, but there were some TV advertisments for TM.


you got any links?


nope no luck. can't figure why. it's strange to to see it.

 


man, Twisted Metal PS3 never got a commercial

 

I was searching up and down for the Twisted Metal commercial when it came out but Sony never made 1

 

It did have a commercial, I remember seeing it a few times where I live but here it is. It just doesn't show the game itself, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn43glnOJVo


hmm ive seen this but it was never aired on TV for the games release

 

that was a shootmytruck.com video

 

in America, Europe and Japan we usually get commercials that are mainly 30 second spots or 15 second spots

 

here are some examples

 

Spyro The Dragon (PS1)

 

Jak & Daxter: Precursor Legacy (PS2)

 

Gears Of War (Xbox 360)

 

 

 

Mario Galaxy (Wii)

 



Kresnik said:

 

Yeah, no.  I'm gonna have to disagree with you heavily on that one.  You raise some good points in the OP for why those games didn't perform as well as they could have done, which are definitely factors, but ultimately it's the complete lack of marketing that killed all 3 of these games.

So, let's take your example of Starhawk.  You said the campaign was horrible and not worth your time.  That's completely opinion, and although I'll admit too that Starhawk's campaign was underwhelming, but it definitely wasn't bad and you could finish the whole thing in about 5 hours.  But that's not why it didn't sell well.  People didn't say "Oh, it has a short campaign" so they didn't go out to buy it.  Warhawk sold 1 million without any single-player mode.  MAG sold 1.25 million without any single-player mode.  The strength of the multi-player offerings made these games sell, and just like those two, Starhawk boasting an impressive, innovative and enjoyable multi-player (just like Warhawk before it).  But absolutely no-one knew about it.  The beta came and went, and then the game released without a blip.  You can check this reddit thread I posted the day it released, noting the number of replies saying things like "I had no idea this was coming out" or "Why wasn't this advertised?"

Twisted Metal has been a series in decline ever since the second game on PS1 where it peaked, in a genre that has all but disappeared from modern development.  If you look at sales figures for the series, then apart from the blip where Black sold more than 4 (and even then, it was barely an increase despite the fact that Black was heavily praised while 4 was held to be quite average), the trend has undoubtedly been downwards.  I will admit, another big issue with Twisted Metal - that other people have mentioned in the thread - was that it was completely broken at launch.  The online was spotty and worked horribly until about 3 months after launch when they bothered to fix it, but by then it was too late.  I see what you're saying about playable characters, but honestly, I don't see how that can have affected more than a couple of sales.  Hardcore fans would buy it regardless of whether there were just 3 character stories or not; casual fans probably only know who Sweet Tooth is anyway.

PSABR was actually advertised quite heavily I'm told (not in my country, but in mainland Europe I hear that adverts were on quite a lot) so about this one - yes, I agree, it was an ill-fated project from the start.  I'm going to quote KylieDog's post about the sales of fighting games last year for exposure, though, because although PSABR did indeed flop, pretty much every fighting game flopped last year without any exceptions.  

So yeah, tl;dr version: Starhawk's complete lack of advertising killed it more than anything else - PS3 owners previously bought multi-player only games quite happily but they didn't buy a game that they didn't know about.  Twisted Metal was a decent effort in a dying genre plagued again by no advertising, but also hit by server issues which killed word-of-mouth.  PSABR flopped like every other fighting game last year.

 


Notice how Warhawk and MAG are online only? It's what Starhawk should have been. The campaign is what killed it. If the campaign were say any good at all (there is no denying it sucks) then it would have a much better chance. The casual fans don't matter for Twisted Metal it's about the hardcore TM fans and all of them are well aware past games had a dozen or so characters. It was a huge step down. Easilly the games biggest problem.



Horrorfest said:

Notice how Warhawk and MAG are online only? It's what Starhawk should have been. The campaign is what killed it. If the campaign were say any good at all (there is no denying it sucks) then it would have a much better chance. The casual fans don't matter for Twisted Metal it's about the hardcore TM fans and all of them are well aware past games had a dozen or so characters. It was a huge step down. Easilly the games biggest problem.

 

If the Twisted Metal hardcore fans were all it was supposed to appeal to, then how much were you expecting it to sell?  The last TM game sold 750k, this one sold 600k, will probably finish around 650k lifetime.  A drop, certainly, but the fanbase for this series just has never been that big.  There are many reasons why it did poorly, but "lack of characters" is a negligable to insignificant one that I'm afraid we're just going to have to disagree on.

The point about MAG & Warhawk was that if people were willing to pay $60 for a multi-player only game, there is no reason they'd be averse to paying the same for a multi-player game with a single-player tutorial.  Because that's pretty much what the single-player was.  I don't think it was bad, but it was there for a specific purpose - to get you used to the build & battle system for when you got dropped into the multi-player, which it did the job for.  Again, I think if you watch reviews, that's pretty much what comes across - IGN recommend the game for the multi-player and say that the single-player is just a tutorial.  Which is where marketing comes in.  There was none.

I see the point you're trying to make, but I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.  Many factors played into Twisted Metal's demise, but a complete and utter failure to market Starhawk is absolutely the single biggest reason it failed, in my opinion.



If the game is good it well sell. I think these games deserved their sales.

lol at PSABR being a AAA title. It is far from it.