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Forums - General Discussion - Is this HDTV worth it or should I just wait.

SteveKishi said:

First of all it wasn't OLED's that he was talking about, it was LCD's.  I can see them coming down in price sometime by the end of next year, where they are affordable to the average consumer.  They are already half of what they use to be 2 years ago, that is comparing 20" and 26" tv's. I use to see 26" tv's selling for 800-$900 two years ago, now they are ranging between $400-$500.

Plus with the whole digital switch in February next year (2009), I think LCD sales will increase which we will see prices starting to fall, because demand will be up. 


That is correct, I'm not necessarily saying that the organic crystal LCD displays will be dirt cheap ...

I do think that the large pannel OLCD displays (60 inch or larger) will take a position in the market which is currently being filled by large pannel LCD displays, meaning that they will be out of the price range of the typical consumer but reasonably affordable (as a guess, somewhere between $2500 and $5000). What this does is push the bigger and better TVs of today down into a more affordable position because they can not compete in the same pricerange as the OLCD ...

What this means is that the 40 inch 1080p LCD HDTV that is currently selling for (roughly) $1000 will become less expensive and possibly be rebranded (most of the odd brand names are manufactured by the big brand companies) ... In a lot of ways the move will be similar to what happened to the EDTV LCD displays when HDTV LCD dispalys really hit the market.

 



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SteveKishi said:

First of all it wasn't OLED's that he was talking about, it was LCD's. I can see them coming down in price sometime by the end of next year, where they are affordable to the average consumer. They are already half of what they use to be 2 years ago, that is comparing 20" and 26" tv's. I use to see 26" tv's selling for 800-$900 two years ago, now they are ranging between $400-$500.

Plus with the whole digital switch in February next year (2009), I think LCD sales will increase which we will see prices starting to fall, because demand will be up.


Actually, he was talking about organic LCDs. There are no "organic LCDs" other than OLEDs. They are referred to in this way because they share many common manufacturing practices with LCDs. Mass media sometimes likes to call them organic LCDs because to most people an LCD is a flat panel and they don't care about the engineering processes that go into the display.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/organic-led-displays-oleds-the-next-trend

To respond to your post, I think LCDs will continue to decrease in price. In a few years prices of OLEDs will start to decrease as well (its old technology, and cheap to manufacture, it just needs economies of scale to bloom). I just didn't think it was going to happen as quickly as he did, so I wanted to know if he had any interesting information about plans to introduce OLEDs quickly.



Think what you want, john, but if I can tell which TV's are 720p and which ones are 1080p from across the store floor, that to me tells me that my "eyes can detect the detail in the 1080p picture." I'd like to know, specifically, what physics and mathematics tell me that I can't.



Witty signature here...

Wii: 14 million by January  I sold myself short

360: 13 million by January I sold microsoft short, but not as bad as Nintendo.

PS3: 6 million by January. If it approaches 8 mil i'll eat crow  Mnn Crow is yummy.

With these results, I've determined that I suck at long term predictions, and will not long term predict anything ever again. Thus spaketh Crono.

"OLED" stands for Organig Light Emitting Diode - it is NOT related in any way to LCD technology.  There is no such thing as an "organic LCD".  You guys seem to have these technologies mixed up.

LCD involves having a backlight shine through a grid of crystal cells, which can be made opaque (blocking the light) or clear (letting the light through), making the picture happen.

OLED is a very thin film of LED dots that glow when a current is passed through them.  This technology is much, much thinner than any other TV type because there is no back light, no containment cells needed for the crystal liquid, etc.

Sony did just bring out the first OLED TV.  It is 11" and sells for $1500 - clearly a luxury buy.  More of a tech demo making the point that it can be done, rather than something they expect to sell tons of.

There are significant issues in making bigger OLED TVs, but the industry is working on those issues and bigger and cheaper versions will be on the market at some point, like a year or three.  At the recent CES, larger panels - Samsung had a 30", I believe - were shown, but were not models that were on the market yet.



Crono said:
Think what you want, john, but if I can tell which TV's are 720p and which ones are 1080p from across the store floor, that to me tells me that my "eyes can detect the detail in the 1080p picture." I'd like to know, specifically, what physics and mathematics tell me that I can't.

Can you see 120hz, too? *giggles*

Just screwin' with ya.

Anyway, I fail to see the use of a 1080p television unless you plan on doubling it up as a computer monitor. Just get a 720p on the cheap that deinterlaces 1080i properly and you should be good to go.

Of course, that will change with the next generation of consoles but with the money you saved, cheaper/better technology 1080p sets will be available. 




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sdyer777 said:

"OLED" stands for Organig Light Emitting Diode - it is NOT related in any way to LCD technology. There is no such thing as an "organic LCD". You guys seem to have these technologies mixed up.

LCD involves having a backlight shine through a grid of crystal cells, which can be made opaque (blocking the light) or clear (letting the light through), making the picture happen.

OLED is a very thin film of LED dots that glow when a current is passed through them. This technology is much, much thinner than any other TV type because there is no back light, no containment cells needed for the crystal liquid, etc.

Sony did just bring out the first OLED TV. It is 11" and sells for $1500 - clearly a luxury buy. More of a tech demo making the point that it can be done, rather than something they expect to sell tons of.

There are significant issues in making bigger OLED TVs, but the industry is working on those issues and bigger and cheaper versions will be on the market at some point, like a year or three. At the recent CES, larger panels - Samsung had a 30", I believe - were shown, but were not models that were on the market yet.

 Erhm, that was my point. I just said that the OLED is often compared to LCDs because it uses some of the same manufacturing techniques and ends up with a similar physical profile. Sorry if I explained that poorly.

Crono said:
Think what you want, john, but if I can tell which TV's are 720p and which ones are 1080p from across the store floor, that to me tells me that my "eyes can detect the detail in the 1080p picture." I'd like to know, specifically, what physics and mathematics tell me that I can't.

 For example: http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/0105viewvrez/



I don't think LCD and OLED share any manufacturing processes at all.  LCD involves many individual layers (color, LCD, lamp) that are manufactured separately then assembled. 

OLED involves a much simpler inkjet printing process, putting the dots directly onto a surface with the grid of wire contacts.  One of the attractive aspects for OLED, and the reason prices are likely to come way down in the future is the cheapness of the inkjet process.  It doesn't require any cleanrooms or anything, like other technologies do.  The surface the dots are printed on can be anything, even flexible plastic.  Take a look at these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn10mRyBqAE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFDyWGstZ-g

OLED really has absolutely ZERO in common with LCD.

 

 



sdyer777 said:

I don't think LCD and OLED share any manufacturing processes at all. LCD involves many individual layers (color, LCD, lamp) that are manufactured separately then assembled.

OLED involves a much simpler inkjet printing process, putting the dots directly onto a surface with the grid of wire contacts. One of the attractive aspects for OLED, and the reason prices are likely to come way down in the future is the cheapness of the inkjet process. It doesn't require any cleanrooms or anything, like other technologies do. The surface the dots are printed on can be anything, even flexible plastic. Take a look at these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn10mRyBqAE&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFDyWGstZ-g

OLED really has absolutely ZERO in common with LCD.


I must admit that you are partially correct. The manufacturing of OLED need not share any manufacturing processes as you pointed out. However, in practice, they are using standard LCD glass with ITO to serve as the base for the inket printing process. That is all I meant, and perhaps I overstated the case, mea culpa. Thanks for pointing that out.



"For example: http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/0105viewvrez/"

Ah, now I see your argument. Just because we can't discern individual pixels doesn't mean the overall picture can't/won't look better at 1080p vs 720p, even at a great distance. For instance. Set up a computer at 720p, and then another at 1080p. Even on the desktop, the difference is obvious.

"Can you see 120hz, too? *giggles*

Just screwin' with ya."

 Maybe not 120hz, but I don't think anyone here will argue if I say I can tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps.  Depending on the source, I can tell the difference between 60fps and 75 fps.  You probably can too.  Try messing with your monitors refresh rates and see if you can notice a difference between 60 and 75 hz.

 

120hz TV's are a step toward different technology that can utilise 120hz.  Technolgies like full frame stereoscopic displays (on a single screen). 

 



Witty signature here...

Wii: 14 million by January  I sold myself short

360: 13 million by January I sold microsoft short, but not as bad as Nintendo.

PS3: 6 million by January. If it approaches 8 mil i'll eat crow  Mnn Crow is yummy.

With these results, I've determined that I suck at long term predictions, and will not long term predict anything ever again. Thus spaketh Crono.