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Forums - General - Too big to know: I am getting fatigued by disagreeing opinions (and other connected rants I have)

MARCUSDJACKSON on 29 January 2013

yep i'm sure you've seen my rant.



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richardhutnik on 29 January 2013

One book I recommend people get ahold of, connected to my rant here, is "Too Big to Know". One chapter started off with my concerns about Internet stuff, and how you get people go into bubbles and then argue endlessly and never be able to reach conclusion. Throw in the echo chamber also that badgenome brought up (a chapter of the book goes into that to), and you capture a basis of my fatigue.

Anyhow, you can check the book out here:
http://www.amazon.com/Too-Big-Know-Rethinking-Everywhere/dp/0465021425



kain_kusanagi on 29 January 2013
silicon said:
kain_kusanagi said:
silicon said:
kain_kusanagi said:
silicon said:
Relax!!!

Let me tell you about two important rules of the internet.

(1) Everyone in the world has had different experiences, and therefore holds a different perspective on each issue. Living in poverty is a lot different than hearing about someone living in poverty. In addition to this is epigenetics, which includes the wide variety of genes, and how our genes are expressed depending on our experiences. For example some people are genetically predisposed to be liberal or conservative.

(2) Everyone is ignorant of the the point in (1). Everyone views the world through their own perspective.

(3) Everyone is ignorant of their ignorance.

Bottom line, it's OK to have disagreements. We'll continue to have them because we're all different.

Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what?!

Source please?

Here's one source. But there are better sources out there.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120827122410.htm

Here's another:

http://www.economist.com/node/21564191

Also, watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOQduoLgRw

Source 1: Speculative, doesn't say anything concrete.

Source 2: Study assumes identical twins have no more personal bond than fraternal twins. All the identical twins I know are much closer to each other than fraternal twins who all act like regular brothers and sisters. This article assumes this is genetic, but I would argue that it is due to identical twins identifying with each other more because they see themselves when they look at each other unlike fraternal twins.

Source 3: Has nothing to do with your statement. The speaker is talking about the differences between liberal and conservative "Moral Matrix" and makes no declarations of genetics outside mammal group empathy.

 

Source 3 is just to raise awareness of the influences of politics. Maybe political beliefs are not completely based on genetics (most likely epigenetics), but there is an underlying moral basis which may be rooted in genetics. It's very straight forward if you believe in evolution. 

I believe in evolution, but I don't believe that everything I think is determined by genetics. We all have very different perspectives because we all have had very different experiences and we have all been raised by different people with different methods for teaching. That is what causes our bias not some genetic liberal/conservative toggle switch.

We are all more than the sum of our parts. That's why I believe we are all responsible for actions. I don't blame genetics and feel sorry for a child molester. I feel sorry for the victim, punish the monster, and hope treatment can alter the deviant's perspective.

To believe evolution dictates our thoughts means you have very little faith in free will. I believe free will is what separates us from the rest of the animals on this planet. We are better than them, because we choose to be better and have the tools to achieve it. Those creative tools are the rewards of an evolution hard fought for, but that's what they are, tools, not shackles of the mind.



silicon on 30 January 2013
kain_kusanagi said:
silicon said:
kain_kusanagi said:
silicon said:
kain_kusanagi said:
silicon said:
Relax!!!

Let me tell you about two important rules of the internet.

(1) Everyone in the world has had different experiences, and therefore holds a different perspective on each issue. Living in poverty is a lot different than hearing about someone living in poverty. In addition to this is epigenetics, which includes the wide variety of genes, and how our genes are expressed depending on our experiences. For example some people are genetically predisposed to be liberal or conservative.

(2) Everyone is ignorant of the the point in (1). Everyone views the world through their own perspective.

(3) Everyone is ignorant of their ignorance.

Bottom line, it's OK to have disagreements. We'll continue to have them because we're all different.

Umm, forgive my ignorance, but what?!

Source please?

Here's one source. But there are better sources out there.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120827122410.htm

Here's another:

http://www.economist.com/node/21564191

Also, watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOQduoLgRw

Source 1: Speculative, doesn't say anything concrete.

Source 2: Study assumes identical twins have no more personal bond than fraternal twins. All the identical twins I know are much closer to each other than fraternal twins who all act like regular brothers and sisters. This article assumes this is genetic, but I would argue that it is due to identical twins identifying with each other more because they see themselves when they look at each other unlike fraternal twins.

Source 3: Has nothing to do with your statement. The speaker is talking about the differences between liberal and conservative "Moral Matrix" and makes no declarations of genetics outside mammal group empathy.

 

Source 3 is just to raise awareness of the influences of politics. Maybe political beliefs are not completely based on genetics (most likely epigenetics), but there is an underlying moral basis which may be rooted in genetics. It's very straight forward if you believe in evolution. 

I believe in evolution, but I don't believe that everything I think is determined by genetics. We all have very different perspectives because we all have had very different experiences and we have all been raised by different people with different methods for teaching. That is what causes our bias not some genetic liberal/conservative toggle switch.

We are all more than the sum of our parts. That's why I believe we are all responsible for actions. I don't blame genetics and feel sorry for a child molester. I feel sorry for the victim, punish the monster, and hope treatment can alter the deviant's perspective.

To believe evolution dictates our thoughts means you have very little faith in free will. I believe free will is what separates us from the rest of the animals on this planet. We are better than them, because we choose to be better and have the tools to achieve it. Those creative tools are the rewards of an evolution hard fought for, but that's what they are, tools, not shackles of the mind.

I think maybe we agree.

I was referring to epigenetics, which is just the term for the way our experiences are reflected by genetic expression. By having a genetic predisposition I meant that some experiences may trigger certain genes to be expressed.