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Forums - Gaming - Breaking News on PS4 - Kotaku reveals new info!!

BlueFalcon said:
dahuman said:
For my sanity, I really hope they are not using Bulldozer based cores, for fuck sake, that shit sucks.

Once you accept that none of the next generation consoles will have an Intel based Core i5/i7 due to cost and Intel's high profit margins, what's the next best gaming processor in the world for a console that is expected to last 6-8 years? Bulldozer/Vishera. Say it isn't so?

Also, you forgot another key word: Context

While on the PC, gamers care a lot about CPU performance because the most popular gaming genres are MMOs & RTS/strategy games which are notoriously poorly multi-threaded and are very CPU limited style games. Furthermore, enthusiasts tend to spend $100-200 for small performance increases on the GPU side (like $100 extra to go from GTX670 to GTX680 or $200+ extra for 25% more performance to go from GTX660Ti to GTX680, or HD7950 to HD7970GE, etc.). For those users, especially if they overclock their CPUs, every little bit of performance and reduction in power at overclocked 4.5-5.0ghz states matters.

None of these things apply to consoles: (1) Console CPUs aren't overclocked (2) Consoles don't have RTS or MMOs (3) Consoles won't use high-end or dual-GPUs.

So why does context matter so much? Because when you put Bulldozer/Vishera (FX8150-8350) and pair it with a GTX670 in a wide variety of "console style games" games, the performance difference between it and Core i5/i7 is almost non-existent.

- Alan Wake, ARMA II: Operation Arrowhead, Assassin's Creed 3, Battlefield 3, Crysis 2, F1 2012, Far Cry 3, GTA IV, Hitman Absolution, Max Payne 3, Metro 2033, and Sleeping Dogs you end up with this:

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/graficke-karty/25994-vliv-procesoru-na-vykon-ve-hrach-od-phenomu-po-core-i7?start=16

At 1920x1080 with Anti-aliasing, when FX8120-8350 are paired with a GTX670, they are only 2% behind in performance! In the type of games that are on consoles (non-MMO/RTS games), the console will be primarily GPU limited. The context matters even more because it's almost a certainty that none of the next generation consoles will have a GPU as powerful as a GTX670. Essentially if you were to put an FX8000 CPU with any GPU slower than GTX670, the console will be 95% GPU limited for most of its life going forward assuming the games are running at 1920x1080 with some anti-aliasing that stresses the GPU. Most professionals reviews run CPU tests at useless resolutions like 1280x800 or 1680x1050 with no AA to show the differences in CPU speeds. This type of testing is absolutely meaningless if the consoles are targeting 1920x1080 with some AA, because the workload almost entirely shifts to the graphics sub-system. The slower the GPU is in the consoles, the more the workload will expose the GPU bottleneck. 

Context: FX8000 would not suck at all in a console -- that would actually be the 2nd best choice after Intel's CPUs, far superior to any processor made by IBM, and it would handily trounce an 8-core Jaguar by miles. If anything, you should hope and pray that PS4 has an 8-core (4 module) Bulldozer/Vishera in it, not denounce it, because honestly that's the 2nd fastest CPU you can get once you step outside of Intel's CPU offerings. Also, if you look at FX8320's retail price of $169 and what Sony can possibly purchase this AMD processor for directly from AMD, then it's pretty obvious Intel's offerings are out of the question, unless you are willing to pay $600-700 for a PS4 with a Core i7. But again, that wouldn't even matter unless the console had a GPU more powerful than a GTX670...

What I meant is the first gen FX Bulldozers, Piledriver is a little better so I have one coming in today(8350) via UPS with a new mobo to upgrade my personal server with, and Steamroller should be even better. The general concern is that AMD CPUs currently draws a lot more power even at lower clock rates, and if they are using the first gen Bulldozer then it'd really make me want to cry on a power draw/performance ratio and I hope their final product will be the later versions at least so they can get more performance per watt.



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Chandler said:
That's good news. Now I can watch the glorious 180° people will make about a touchscreen on a Controller.

The rumour is saying that it won't have a touchscreen. It says that it will have a rear multitouch touchpad like Vita. They won't go with touchscreen because of the cost with these high specs. Keep it simple, powerful and cheap, PS2-style.

 

ArnoldRimmer said:
Interesting, the RGB led on the controller is probably intended to be used in a Playstation Move kind of way, so the PS4 will probably ship with a camera.

Or it can just be a replacement for the current 4 controller port/charging indicator leds.



Like the idea of tying accounts to controllers.



 

dahuman said:
What I meant is the first gen FX Bulldozers, Piledriver is a little better so I have one coming in today(8350) via UPS with a new mobo to upgrade my personal server with, and Steamroller should be even better. The general concern is that AMD CPUs currently draws a lot more power even at lower clock rates, and if they are using the first gen Bulldozer then it'd really make me want to cry on a power draw/performance ratio and I hope their final product will be the later versions at least so they can get more performance per watt.

1. PS3 had a power draw of 195-240W when it first launched, and its idle power draw was incredibly wasteful:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/green-gaming-playstation-3-6303944/

They could use the FX8300 (95W TDP) and a slightly neutured HD7970M (75-100W), then you can end up very near original PS3's power consumption. I don't think that would be a problem since the idle power consumption will actually be far better this round and load would be similar.

2. They could do a custom BIOS for flexibility. Since most games don't scale beyond 4 threads, they could set up the BIOS so that the 4 cores clock to 3.6-4.0ghz when the other 4 are not in use. If all 8 cores / 4 modules are utilized, the CPU could be capped at 2.6-2.8ghz. Either one of those options (4 Bulldozer/Vishera cores at 3.6ghz+ or 8 of those at 2.6-2.8ghz) would be way faster than 8 Jaguar cores clocked at 1.6ghz. 

My bigger problem with this rumor is not Bulldozer vs. Piledriver details but other things. First, they have 2.2GB of GDDR5 which is not even logically possible unless there is 2048 MB of GDDR5 and some added eDRAM/eSRAM or special cache for the GPU? Second, based on the rumored specs of PS4 vs. 720, it looks like we are comparing a Bulldozer 8 core with HD7970M 2GB GDDR5 (PS4) to an 8-core Jaguar with HD7770Ghz DDR3 (Xbox 720). The difference between those 2 consoles in terms of power is a generational leap apart, at least 2-3x the power difference, especially on the CPU side. How could Sony put so much more powerful hardware and still stay under $600? Why would MS go with such less powerful parts if much faster parts were barely more expensive? On these spec differences alone, the consoles would not even be remotely comparable in terms of generational processing power. That doesn't make any sense to me if they are both going to be priced at $350-450, especially since we know Sony cannot afford to lose hundreds of dollars on the console like they did with PS4 given their financial situation. 



BlueFalcon said:
dahuman said:
What I meant is the first gen FX Bulldozers, Piledriver is a little better so I have one coming in today(8350) via UPS with a new mobo to upgrade my personal server with, and Steamroller should be even better. The general concern is that AMD CPUs currently draws a lot more power even at lower clock rates, and if they are using the first gen Bulldozer then it'd really make me want to cry on a power draw/performance ratio and I hope their final product will be the later versions at least so they can get more performance per watt.

1. PS3 had a power draw of 195-240W when it first launched, and its idle power draw was incredibly wasteful:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/green-gaming-playstation-3-6303944/

They could use the FX8300 (95W TDP) and a slightly neutured HD7970M (75-100W), then you can end up very near original PS3's power consumption. I don't think that would be a problem since the idle power consumption will actually be far better this round and load would be similar.

2. They could do a custom BIOS for flexibility. Since most games don't scale beyond 4 threads, they could set up the BIOS so that the 4 cores clock to 3.6-4.0ghz when the other 4 are not in use. If all 8 cores / 4 modules are utilized, the CPU could be capped at 2.6-2.8ghz. Either one of those options (4 Bulldozer/Vishera cores at 3.6ghz+ or 8 of those at 2.6-2.8ghz) would be way faster than 8 Jaguar cores clocked at 1.6ghz. 

My bigger problem with this rumor is not Bulldozer vs. Piledriver details but other things. First, they have 2.2GB of GDDR5 which is not even logically possible unless there is 2048 MB of GDDR5 and some added eDRAM/eSRAM or special cache for the GPU? Second, based on the rumored specs of PS4 vs. 720, it looks like we are comparing a Bulldozer 8 core with HD7970M 2GB GDDR5 (PS4) to an 8-core Jaguar with HD7770Ghz DDR3 (Xbox 720). The difference between those 2 consoles in terms of power is a generational leap apart, at least 2-3x the power difference, especially on the CPU side. How could Sony put so much more powerful hardware and still stay under $600? On these spec differences alone, the consoles would not even be remotely comparable in terms of generational processing power. That doesn't make any sense to me.


I think the price is possible since AMD parts are very reasonably priced, my problem is not with how much power it'd draw, but more on the performance per watt ratio and so I don't like the idea of 1st gen Bulldozer because it'd be wasted performance. 2.2GB of GDDR5 makes no sense at all though, this rumor is kinda meh TBH.



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BlueFalcon said:
dahuman said:
What I meant is the first gen FX Bulldozers, Piledriver is a little better so I have one coming in today(8350) via UPS with a new mobo to upgrade my personal server with, and Steamroller should be even better. The general concern is that AMD CPUs currently draws a lot more power even at lower clock rates, and if they are using the first gen Bulldozer then it'd really make me want to cry on a power draw/performance ratio and I hope their final product will be the later versions at least so they can get more performance per watt.

1. PS3 had a power draw of 195-240W when it first launched, and its idle power draw was incredibly wasteful:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/green-gaming-playstation-3-6303944/

They could use the FX8300 (95W TDP) and a slightly neutured HD7970M (75-100W), then you can end up very near original PS3's power consumption. I don't think that would be a problem since the idle power consumption will actually be far better this round and load would be similar.

2. They could do a custom BIOS for flexibility. Since most games don't scale beyond 4 threads, they could set up the BIOS so that the 4 cores clock to 3.6-4.0ghz when the other 4 are not in use. If all 8 cores / 4 modules are utilized, the CPU could be capped at 2.6-2.8ghz. Either one of those options (4 Bulldozer/Vishera cores at 3.6ghz+ or 8 of those at 2.6-2.8ghz) would be way faster than 8 Jaguar cores clocked at 1.6ghz. 

My bigger problem with this rumor is not Bulldozer vs. Piledriver details but other things. First, they have 2.2GB of GDDR5 which is not even logically possible unless there is 2048 MB of GDDR5 and some added eDRAM/eSRAM or special cache for the GPU? Second, based on the rumored specs of PS4 vs. 720, it looks like we are comparing a Bulldozer 8 core with HD7970M 2GB GDDR5 (PS4) to an 8-core Jaguar with HD7770Ghz DDR3 (Xbox 720). The difference between those 2 consoles in terms of power is a generational leap apart, at least 2-3x the power difference, especially on the CPU side. How could Sony put so much more powerful hardware and still stay under $600? Why would MS go with such less powerful parts if much faster parts were barely more expensive? On these spec differences alone, the consoles would not even be remotely comparable in terms of generational processing power. That doesn't make any sense to me if they are both going to be priced at $350-450, especially since we know Sony cannot afford to lose hundreds of dollars on the console like they did with PS4 given their financial situation. 

When it comes to keeping the price equal with a much stronger HW on PS4, maybe the difference is in the fact that MS is (or at least was) rummoured to include Kinect 2 together with the next X-box? We'd get a Kinect vs. better specs for the same price. I know which one I'd go for... There is not a single Kinect game I'm interested in.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Scisca said:
When it comes to keeping the price equal with a much stronger HW on PS4, maybe the difference is in the fact that MS is (or at least was) rummoured to include Kinect 2 together with the next X-box? We'd get a Kinect vs. better specs for the same price. I know which one I'd go for... There is not a single Kinect game I'm interested in.

Ya, true but the specs are so lop-sided to favor the PS4, it seems too good to be true/fanboy's made up wet dream. I can believe if one console is 50% more powerful than the other but when rumors start popping that PS4 might use an 8-core Jaguar (tablet/netbook CPU) and then we get a conflicting rumor that states it will actually be the AMD's performance CPU (aka Bulldozer), that's so dramatically different that you are talking about completely different levels of performance. It's like comparing a Ferrari 458 to a Subaru BRZ. Because of this huge discrepancy in level of performance being thrown around, I am guessing half of these rumors are made up BS. The interesting part is these consoles seem to getting more powerful the closer they get to launch. Like first it was leaked they might have HD6670/7670 style GPUs and now we are all the way up to HD7970/8800 GPU rumors. And then we even get outrageous claims of 4K gaming, ray-tracing and all kinds of 'secret modules' sauce :). Yet when developers are saying MS/Sony are moving a lot closer to off-the-shelf barely custom PC parts, the idea of crazy custom secret sauce parts that increase Tflops from 1.3Tflops to 3Tflops by some 'magic' just contradicts the general direction the console makers are moving -- ease of porting/optimization, lower components costs, make consoles more affordable.



ethomaz said:
Somebody in GAF said the same than I said.

"No matter how you turn it, you can't get 2.2GB of VRAM..."

This VRAM is impossible.

What if it is 8GB total DDR3/GDDR5 ram shared between CPU/GPU and the GPU gets a set 2.2GB of that 8GB? That seems most logical to me if these specs are even remotely true.

Dev kits ALWAYS have way more ram than the console, though. So maybe it is 8GB GDDR5 ram in the devkits of which 4GB GDDR5 will be in final console with the GPU sharing that memory and using up to 2.2GB of it.

EDIT: I see someone else also touched on this.



I am glad the PS4 is catching up with the Xbox 360 in allowing multiple accounts be on the same console at the same time and both get achievements and whatnot. Being able to carry my LIVE account around on a flash drive and still get achievements and play online at any of my friends' houses was great for our big CoD nights back in the day. And great for co-op games or Guitar Hero type games with 2 people on the same 360.