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Forums - Politics - Call your Congressman tomorrow as Obama is giving his speech!

bouzane on 16 January 2013
Torillian said:
bouzane said:


@Torillian

That sounds like a sensible alternative which would, depending upon the details, do little to harm individual liberty. However, I do not simply support or oppose laws and regulations based upon whether or not I think they will be effective. I would require unbiased, scientific studies to definitively demonstrate that this would indeed prove to effectively prevent such crimes.


That seems unlikely to happen before it's passed since not every possibility can be researched.  In the absence of obvious evidence you have to go with what you think will help, and that's something I think would have helped this particular situation.  


I guess we'll just have to disagree because I believe that we should treat legislation that restricts the rights and freedoms of individuals in much the same way we SHOULD treat war and imprisonment, as a last resort. I can not stand the idea of knee-jerk laws and regulations being passed, especially considering the fact that while they definitely restrict individual liberty, there's no guarantee that they will help prevent the issue at hand.



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killerzX on 16 January 2013
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.



fordy on 16 January 2013
kain_kusanagi said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:
fordy said:
kain_kusanagi said:


I responded to a poll data debate. I typicaly don't go looking for it. But as a human being with bias I'm sure I'm more apt to point out the pointlessness of polls when a poll is beyond stupid.


Just like voting, right?


I'm sure you think that is some kind of killer jab, but I'm honestly not recognising your twisting of my works this time.

No, I'm interested to know.

Polls are generally driven by people who are passionate, who want to know that their opinion is one that lots of others agree with. It's the same with Capitalism. It provides incentive to do such things. you wouldn't say Capitalism doesn't work cos it involves getting off your ass to work, would you?

You might disagree with polls, or how polls are done, but when done correctly, they provide useful insight into public opinion.

Useful insight into idiot-didn't-hang-up opinion maybe.

I vote. I always vote. I don't make my vote public because I have the right to vote anonymously. Polls have nothing to do with voting other than the media makes it out to be 1:1. Exit polls are a lot more accurate though, but that is beside the point. Capitalism also has nothing to do with idiots who give idiot answers to trick questions so pollsters can hand data to special interest groups to use in political warfare.

If you read my above post, you'll see I wrote "when done correctly". I'm also for misleading polls. Hell, my city's local government jusitifed building a big freeway through the middle of the city on the basis of a misleading question. That's not to say that all polls have to be misleading, however.

I don't think that now is a good time to be arguing the accuracy of exit polls, considering how many recently admitted that they made the results up to appease the viewers watching them.



bouzane on 16 January 2013
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

The IRA fought the British using AR-15s, although they relied more on nail bombs than anything. I guess the flamethrowers didn't hurt either.



killerzX on 16 January 2013
badgenome said:
killerzX said:

please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

Okay, fair point. But there is no need to have such scary looking weapons. It's time to bring back the assault weapons ban. Haven't flash suppressors and bayonet mounts taken enough innocent lives?


the far more menacing and deadly feature is those shoulder things that go up. of course i am speeking of the high powered, high capacity barrel shroud.



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fordy on 16 January 2013
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.

What I'm saying is, you just shot down your own argument.



killerzX on 16 January 2013
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.

What I'm saying is, you just shot down your own argument.


my argument is civilians should have access to the same firearms as the government has access to. and civilians should be able to defend themselves with whatever they choose to.

so how did you or I shoot down my argument.



fordy on 16 January 2013
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.

What I'm saying is, you just shot down your own argument.


my argument is civilians should have access to the same firearms as the government has access to. and civilians should be able to defend themselves with whatever they choose to.

so how did you or I shoot down my argument.


Even having the same FIREARMS as the government wont put you on a level playing field. the government has a lot more things to combat their own firearms.



killerzX on 16 January 2013
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.

What I'm saying is, you just shot down your own argument.


my argument is civilians should have access to the same firearms as the government has access to. and civilians should be able to defend themselves with whatever they choose to.

so how did you or I shoot down my argument.


Even having the same FIREARMS as the government wont put you on a level playing field. the government has a lot more things to combat their own firearms.

so? is that supposed to be an argument against people defending themselves with Ar-15's?



fordy on 16 January 2013
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:
fordy said:
killerzX said:


please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15.

 

Interesting you asked that, since the argument people make to keep such weapons is to fight a war against a tyrannical government.


so we agree, law abiding citizens should have access to full-autos.

What I'm saying is, you just shot down your own argument.


my argument is civilians should have access to the same firearms as the government has access to. and civilians should be able to defend themselves with whatever they choose to.

so how did you or I shoot down my argument.


Even having the same FIREARMS as the government wont put you on a level playing field. the government has a lot more things to combat their own firearms.

so? is that supposed to be an argument against people defending themselves with Ar-15's?

You just said you were arguing for MILITARY GRADE arms for civilians. Then you were saying "please tell me what war was ever fought with an Ar-15."

In other words, wouldn't your argument make the use of AR-15's redundant, since it would stand little chance against military grade weaponry.