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Forums - Politics - Economic inequality biggest reason for violence. Not gun laws.

Slimebeast said:
No it's simply not.



Like I said to others. THere are other reason that contribute but income ineguality is showing to  be consistent. Less gun regulation could be second or what ever reason. I posted this to get people to think.



Around the Network
Year Population Crime rate per 100,000 population
Violent crime
Violent Crime rate Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter rate Forcible rape rate Robbery rate Aggravated assault rate
 
1960 179,323,175 160.9 5.1 9.6 60.1 86.1
1961 182,992,000 158.1 4.8 9.4 58.3 85.7
1962 185,771,000 162.3 4.6 9.4 59.7 88.6
1963 188,483,000 168.2 4.6 9.4 61.8 92.4
1964 191,141,000 190.6 4.9 11.2 68.2 106.2
1965 193,526,000 200.2 5.1 12.1 71.7 111.3
1966 195,576,000 220.0 5.6 13.2 80.8 120.3
1967 197,457,000 253.2 6.2 14.0 102.8 130.2
1968 199,399,000 298.4 6.9 15.9 131.8 143.8
1969 201,385,000 328.7 7.3 18.5 148.4 154.5
1970 203,235,298 363.5 7.9 18.7 172.1 164.8
1971 206,212,000 396.0 8.6 20.5 188.0 178.8
1972 208,230,000 401.0 9.0 22.5 180.7 188.8
1973 209,851,000 417.4 9.4 24.5 183.1 200.5
1974 211,392,000 461.1 9.8 26.2 209.3 215.8
1975 213,124,000 487.8 9.6 26.3 220.8 231.1
1976 214,659,000 467.8 8.7 26.6 199.3 233.2
1977 216,332,000 475.9 8.8 29.4 190.7 247.0
1978 218,059,000 497.8 9.0 31.0 195.8 262.1
1979 220,099,000 548.9 9.8 34.7 218.4 286.0
1980 225,349,264 596.6 10.2 36.8 251.1 298.5
1981 229,465,714 593.5 9.8 36.0 258.4 289.3
1982 231,664,458 570.8 9.1 34.0 238.8 289.0
1983 233,791,994 538.1 8.3 33.8 216.7 279.4
1984 235,824,902 539.9 7.9 35.7 205.7 290.6
1985 237,923,795 558.1 8.0 36.8 209.3 304.0
1986 240,132,887 620.1 8.6 38.1 226.0 347.4
1987 242,288,918 612.5 8.3 37.6 213.7 352.9
1988 244,498,982 640.6 8.5 37.8 222.1 372.2
1989 246,819,230 666.9 8.7 38.3 234.3 385.6
1990 249,464,396 729.6 9.4 41.1 256.3 422.9
1991 252,153,092 758.2 9.8 42.3 272.7 433.4
1992 255,029,699 757.7 9.3 42.8 263.7 441.9
1993 257,782,608 747.1 9.5 41.1 256.0 440.5
1994 260,327,021 713.6 9.0 39.3 237.8 427.6
1995 262,803,276 684.5 8.2 37.1 220.9 418.3
1996 265,228,572 636.6 7.4 36.3 201.9 391.0
1997 267,783,607 611.0 6.8 35.9 186.2 382.1
1998 270,248,003 567.6 6.3 34.5 165.5 361.4
1999 272,690,813 523.0 5.7 32.8 150.1 334.3
2000 281,421,906 506.5 5.5 32.0 145.0 324.0
2001 285,317,559 504.5 5.6 31.8 148.5 318.6
2002 287,973,924 494.4 5.6 33.1 146.1 309.5
2003 290,788,976 475.8 5.7 32.3 142.5 295.4
2004 293,656,842 463.2 5.5 32.4 136.7 288.6
2005 296,507,061 469.0 5.6 31.8 140.8 290.8
2006 299,398,484 473.6 5.7 31.0 149.4 287.5
2007 301,621,157 466.9 5.6 30.0 147.6 283.8
2008 304,374,846 457.5 5.4 29.7 145.7 276.7
2009 307,006,550 431.9 5.0 29.1 133.1 264.7
2010 308,745,538 403.6 4.8 27.5 119.1 252.3

This table is from http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm. There were no further years available but as you can see the violent crime rate has been steadily declining since 1991. If your theory were to hold up and if in fact the income inequality gap has continued to expand for the past 30 years, than why has the violent crime rate decreased since 1991. This throws quite the wrench in your theory. While I am not prepared to make a full fledged argument here, I would argue that one possibility is that income equality is not the same as quality of life equality. While it may be true that nominal and/or real income inequality has increased, quality of life equality has stayed on par or has improved due to technology and globalization. While merely anecdotal, it is somewhat visible to a casual observer how many in the middle class have luxuries and living standards unimaginable for prior generations. Cellular phones/smartphones, GPS in non-luxury line vehicles, even the focal point of this website, video games, can be seen as luxuries that help negate any possible income inequality thus reducing violent crime rates.



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Go communism...?


Lol great post! Credit where credit is due. 

 



spaceguy said:
the_dengle said:
You're right, all wealth should be redistributed completely evenly so that there is no such thing as economic inequality. Then there would be no violence! Problem solved.



No one said that. Just pay people better, You know a living wage. Not peanuts. The CEO's don't need to make 200 million a year and yes they do with stock options. Thats how they hide what they make. It will say 25 million on pay but with stock options it's way higher.

It's not a all or nothing approach. It's not being a greedy f--k. The tops that make that type of money and want more is a disease, not a good business man but someone who has a mental issue.  I would never need that much and if I did I would be Like bill gates and work full time to make sure my money was helping thousands of people but one person can't do it. Goverments have to do it.


Why should a guy down on the assembly line with no skills at all, who could replaced at the snap of a finger, be arbitrarily paid more than he is worth? And okay let's bash CEO's...you think you could run a fortune 500 company? I know I couldn't. They have a unique set of skills that makes them worth the millions they are paid, and they look after and create thousands of jobs and contribute hugely to society through job creation and paying taxes. 

No, the real problem is people sense of entitlement. People aren't happy unless they have what everyone else has. Guess what, greed isn't something only found in rich people, you don't think poor people are greedy? Economic inequality is no excuse for violence.



ishiki said:

Where's the graph of gun laws, vs homocides. In order to have an argument you have to have something to compare it to.


All this says, is that economic inequality leads to violence. It doesn't say that gun laws have no effect on homocide rate. 


best answer yet.



 

 

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kowenicki said:
Stats for China and India. I have a feeling they will completely blow this out of the water.

Have to presuppose a certain degree of rule of law here. High rule of law is also why Singapore is under the curve.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

It's a factor.

I'd go more drug use... when you consider the fact for example, that economic inequality has been rising quite a bit. (at least in the way it's commonly measursured.)

While at the same time, violent crime has been lowering per capita.

 

I'd put drug use being a factor that causes both violence and gun use.



Mr Khan said:
kowenicki said:
Stats for China and India. I have a feeling they will completely blow this out of the water.

Have to presuppose a certain degree of rule of law here. High rule of law is also why Singapore is under the curve.

That's part of it.... I mean I wouldn't rule out hard drug use personally.  I mean look at Finland and Sweeden way upthere.  What's up with that?

 

Also, i feel like i'd have to point out that any serious researcher would usually eliminate the USA, considering it to be a HUGE outlier.

I wonder if the data would correlate as nicely without the US.  I wonder if it would correlate at all.  Generally when making a linear regression you want about half of your dots above the red line, and half below.  

If you've got way too many on one side of it... that means you've got big outliers in your data corrupting your data analysis.



joesampson said:

This table is from http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm. There were no further years available but as you can see the violent crime rate has been steadily declining since 1991. If your theory were to hold up and if in fact the income inequality gap has continued to expand for the past 30 years, than why has the violent crime rate decreased since 1991. This throws quite the wrench in your theory. While I am not prepared to make a full fledged argument here, I would argue that one possibility is that income equality is not the same as quality of life equality. While it may be true that nominal and/or real income inequality has increased, quality of life equality has stayed on par or has improved due to technology and globalization. While merely anecdotal, it is somewhat visible to a casual observer how many in the middle class have luxuries and living standards unimaginable for prior generations. Cellular phones/smartphones, GPS in non-luxury line vehicles, even the focal point of this website, video games, can be seen as luxuries that help negate any possible income inequality thus reducing violent crime rates.


Yes and no.  While Gini coefficent has been rising in the US.  Individual Gini coefficent actually hasn't been.


The average person isn't getting richer.  It's just households are getting richer then other households due to things like the rich being more likely to marry the rich, single income families etc.

Granted though that does more or less throw a kink in the current analysis.



Marks said:
spaceguy said:
the_dengle said:
You're right, all wealth should be redistributed completely evenly so that there is no such thing as economic inequality. Then there would be no violence! Problem solved.



No one said that. Just pay people better, You know a living wage. Not peanuts. The CEO's don't need to make 200 million a year and yes they do with stock options. Thats how they hide what they make. It will say 25 million on pay but with stock options it's way higher.

It's not a all or nothing approach. It's not being a greedy f--k. The tops that make that type of money and want more is a disease, not a good business man but someone who has a mental issue.  I would never need that much and if I did I would be Like bill gates and work full time to make sure my money was helping thousands of people but one person can't do it. Goverments have to do it.


Why should a guy down on the assembly line with no skills at all, who could replaced at the snap of a finger, be arbitrarily paid more than he is worth? And okay let's bash CEO's...you think you could run a fortune 500 company? I know I couldn't. They have a unique set of skills that makes them worth the millions they are paid, and they look after and create thousands of jobs and contribute hugely to society through job creation and paying taxes. 

No, the real problem is people sense of entitlement. People aren't happy unless they have what everyone else has. Guess what, greed isn't something only found in rich people, you don't think poor people are greedy? Economic inequality is no excuse for violence.

WOW!  So much fail.



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