loy310 said:
joeorc said:
kowenicki said:
joeorc said:
kowenicki said:
joeorc said:
S&P and Fitch accused of market manipulation in Italy
Italian prosecutors have filed charges against Deven Sharma, the former president of Standard & Poor’s, and six other credit rating officials for issuing downgrades that destablised the country and fuelled the debt crisis.
12 Nov 2012
If the Trani judge gives the go-ahead, it could be a test-case for dozens of other efforts to sue the credit rating agencies. Despite widespread criticism for failing to realise the debt they were rating as AAA was highly toxic, the agencies have so far managed to protect themselves from prosecution by claiming that their ratings are only opinions. In America, they have claimed protection under free speech rules.
More than 60 cases against the agencies are thought to have been filed around the world following the financial crisis but none with much success.
A breakthrough came three weeks ago when an Australian court ruled that S&P misled 12 councils in Australia by awarded a AAA rating to derivatives products created by ABN Amro which imploded less than two years after they were sold.
In July, McGraw-Hill, the American owners of S&P, admitted in a filing that US regulators, including the Securities & Exchange Commission and the Department of Justice, are investigating S&P’s ratings of structured products.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9672943/SandP-and-Fitch-accused-of-market-manipulation-in-Italy.html
"According to Adusbef and Federconsumatori, the three rating agencies, which are investor-driven companies, manipulate the financial markets to benefit their investors, and thus create a conflict of interest.
“The world's biggest fund management companies are among the rating agencies' shareholders. Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway, Fidelity, State Street, Blackrock and Morgan Stanley Investment are just a few of Moody's shareholders. Moody's is being used by its shareholders to influence the market so to increase their share value and profits,” Avallone added.
The Italian court of accounts has estimated that the three agencies caused damages of over 120 billion euros to Italy's economy from May to November 2011. "
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/26/252919/moodys-accused-of-giving-false-figures/
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Whats your point? That the ratings agencies were too soft in the past and need to be harder and more analytical? I agree. Hence Sony now has Junk status.
This relates to banks and the hiddent toxic debts that the agencies didnt know about. They are essentially saying they should have know about them and warned the world. Italy would be better looking in the mirror and stop trying to blame a rating agency for years of corruption and bad fiscal management.
This is very much a case of shooting the messenger.
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"This is very much a case of shooting the messenger. "
no, its about using their company to manipulate market's , and how many people such as your self hold these agencys harmless of such manipulation.
there is a reason why many people do not post in sections that you post in. because its always a negative post.
when the dog gets kicked so much, people tend to keep to themselves, thats why there is a lack of exciting back n forth in threads like this anymore because when your on the loosing end of every thread there is no point in going further, its not about keeping the head in the sand, its about after a while why argue about it. hey you were right about the situation, about Sony, you get a cookie, does that make you feel better about yourself?
many people asked why many ps3 fans do not post in other sections and keep to the psvita section, and its a safe haven for fanboys. well the answer is quite simple being the butt end of pretty much all the jokes on the internet about Sonys fans kinda gets tiresome.
when many gamer's act like Sony fanboys are just getting a taste of their own medicine, than so be it its like many people just want the ps3 Fanboys are seen as the worst offenders on this site and pretty much every gamer centric site they are seen as children that need to sit down and shut up and let the big boys talk and not say a word because we know more than you do. well guess what you and others are getting your wish, and that is one of the reasons with the many snide comments of many gamers on this forum always poking fun of anything and every thing sony just to get back at gamers, just remember what comes around goes around. more negative karma as you reap so shall you sow.
people wonder why many ps3 fanboys do not post in sections now its because being the butt end of jokes wears thin after a while even a fanboy can figure that one out.
its your arrogance that rub's some people the wrong way. its not really about what you post.
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Well all of that was a waste of your time. I couldnt give a toss about what people say about me or my threads here. Your explanation is weak to be honest and you come across as a bit of a victim. If there is a constructive contra pint then makle it. The reality is that the reason why my posts are frowned upon by many is simply because they are purely factual. You simply cant argue with facts. You cant hide from facts and its difficult to spin them. In other words they are the nemesis to a fan boys mind.
Anyway,
Back on topic. I was actually talking about the article you posted. You completely missed my point. I was saying that the article you posted was about shooting the messenger, "the messenger" being the rating agencies. I wasnt talking about you shooting me down as a messenger.
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and once again there is your arrogance, you come across as belittling any and everyone that gives you a response that is not a yes i agree with you response
"I couldnt give a toss about what people say about me or my threads here, but yet you continue: Your explanation is weak to be honest and you come across as a bit of a victim."
where am i coming across as a Victim. the counter point is the very fact that these credit agencys are under investigation right now in the same month as they are downgrading companies and are under investigation for Market manipulation.
you bring up credit agencyts as part of your post, and put in your points but so did I these credit agencys cannot manipulate the Market?
this is not just because of Sony, other companies and even countries are bing downgraded, the United states credit rating was downgraded.
but yet you do not post about these very same credit agency's being under investigation for market manipulation?
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You are both over looking the point of joeorc post, it's not a kill the messenger thing, more like a conflict of interest thing, how hard is it to argue that joeorc? Kowen, the Italian gov can be corrupt but rateing agencies can't? Joes links make a pretty good case against them to the point where it makes this thread almost irrelevant.
This rateing topics have been the only topic fanboys have been clinging to for the whole 2012, all the rating does is affect how much Sony pay to get a loan, does not mean Sony is going belly up or don't have cash to spend on ps4 or vita, we are stll getting great games.
Just another troll topic for the fans.
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Essay Pro