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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 50 - Superheroes & Villains

happydolphin on 15 December 2012

^To clarify. It' unlikely that mafia would bus town (tabs) with town Night 1.



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Final-Fan on 15 December 2012
miz1q2w3e said:
Final-Fan said:

If Linkz already voted Happy, then obviously scum-Linkz couldn't possibly pile on for a scum quicklynch.  There were still two votes to go before Happy was lynched, and I think we can safely say there aren't 3 mafia left.  But aside from that, I moved from undecided to leaning town after I found Linkz's arguments about happy to be persuasive enough that I felt good enough to deserve a vote. 

You're acting like people's opinions on other people can't, don't, or shouldn't evolve based on posts, which is ridiculous. 

That wasn't the point I was making. Nothing linkz said made him that much more town in my eyes, and I already showed you that even he doesn't think his argument against happyD was all that, so how could it possibly be THAT convincing for you to go from undecided, straight to fully trusting him, even enough to vote with him for no good reason?

Either you weren't telling the full truth when you said you were still undecided on linkz, or you're lying now about your sudden change of heart, hence why I called you inconsistent.

Well, if happy is scum and Linkz pushes his lynch, that is evidence he is not scum although a bus is plausible.  It would be something to look at in the following Day.  The point is, after Linkz's posts, I agreed with them.  So it comes down to "is happy scum?" not "is linkz deceiving me?".  The first question trumps the second.  If happy is scum, then even if Linkz is scum trying to gain town trust that is still an issue that can be settled after lynching the first scum. 

As for how persuasive Linkz's points really are, I just have to disagree with you.  I found them pretty persuasive.  Moreover, Linkz didn't back off because he was all that doubtful of his position, but rather because he was willing to lynch radish and just felt he had a better chance of getting town to go along with it.  So if he is convinced they are both the final two scum, there's really not that much incentive for him to go insane trying to win town to his position (I well remember his near-meltdowns previously this game, though I wasn't sure if it was an act or not) when he can ALSO vote for scum they are more amenable to lynching. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 15 December 2012
happydolphin said:
Final-Fan said:

It is entirely possible that happy is scum with a gun item that got bussed the night with tabaha, who would then scan himself innocent, as Linkz outlined. 

It would require that I, of all players, be bussed with tabs. It would also require that I'm scum. You do realize I could also be town, right? Or do you just prefer to ignore that?

There are indeed two logical possibilities:  scum-and-bussed, and town-and-true-scan.  You being bussed with tabaha night 1 if you're also town is just silly, so that's why if you are town the scan is specifically of you. 

Obviously, I consider the first logical possibility to be far more likely based on the evidence (things that have happened in this thread on which we all are basing our opinions). 

If I didn't acknowledge that there was any other possibility than you being scum and bussed, I would have said something like it's definitely true, rather than it's entirely possible. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 15 December 2012

I mean technically scum bussing town-you and tabaha is also "logically possible" because it is compatible with the evidence, but it is clearly ridiculous so I don't count it.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

happydolphin on 15 December 2012
Final-Fan said:
miz1q2w3e said:
Final-Fan said:

If Linkz already voted Happy, then obviously scum-Linkz couldn't possibly pile on for a scum quicklynch.  There were still two votes to go before Happy was lynched, and I think we can safely say there aren't 3 mafia left.  But aside from that, I moved from undecided to leaning town after I found Linkz's arguments about happy to be persuasive enough that I felt good enough to deserve a vote. 

You're acting like people's opinions on other people can't, don't, or shouldn't evolve based on posts, which is ridiculous. 

That wasn't the point I was making. Nothing linkz said made him that much more town in my eyes, and I already showed you that even he doesn't think his argument against happyD was all that, so how could it possibly be THAT convincing for you to go from undecided, straight to fully trusting him, even enough to vote with him for no good reason?

Either you weren't telling the full truth when you said you were still undecided on linkz, or you're lying now about your sudden change of heart, hence why I called you inconsistent.

Well, if happy is scum and Linkz pushes his lynch, that is evidence he is not scum although a bus is plausible.  It would be something to look at in the following Day.  The point is, after Linkz's posts, I agreed with them.  So it comes down to "is happy scum?" not "is linkz deceiving me?".  The first question trumps the second.  If happy is scum, then even if Linkz is scum trying to gain town trust that is still an issue that can be settled after lynching the first scum. 

As for how persuasive Linkz's points really are, I just have to disagree with you.  I found them pretty persuasive.  Moreover, Linkz didn't back off because he was all that doubtful of his position, but rather because he was willing to lynch radish and just felt he had a better chance of getting town to go along with it.  So if he is convinced they are both the final two scum, there's really not that much incentive for him to go insane trying to win town to his position (I well remember his near-meltdowns previously this game, though I wasn't sure if it was an act or not) when he can ALSO vote for scum they are more amenable to lynching. 

@bold. No its doesn't, because I could be town AND Linkz would be deceiving you.

@Linkz targetting radish. Linkz CLEARLY said, a few times toDay, that Radish was his #1 scumspect, yet he went after me. That was inconsistent. Also, he said he had nothing to peg radish on yet he was his #1 scumspect, it just doesn't add up.

Add to that that I clearly addressed every SINGLE point linkz brought up against me, and brought up many against him, yet you haven't even considered them. If you truly were town, you wouldn't ignore the evidence I brought out against him. At least twice, I've listed a series of accusation against him that point to him being pretty damn scum. You make nothing of that?

If you need, ask me for the list again, I will get it for you. But for you to just say he was making sense after my defense and after my case against him is bs.



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happydolphin on 15 December 2012
Final-Fan said:

There are indeed two logical possibilities:  scum-and-bussed, and town-and-true-scan.  You being bussed with tabaha night 1 if you're also town is just silly, so that's why if you are town the scan is specifically of you. 

Obviously, I consider the first logical possibility to be far more likely based on the evidence (things that have happened in this thread on which we all are basing our opinions). 

If I didn't acknowledge that there was any other possibility than you being scum and bussed, I would have said something like it's definitely true, rather than it's entirely possible. 

So you don't trust the scan based on my play. In other words, you have no evidence that the scan in and of itself is not trustworthy, apart from the possibility that I, as much as anybody else, could have been bussed (since anyone could be either mafia or town).

It's grasping, but you present it like a likelihood.



miz1q2w3e on 15 December 2012
pezus said:
Name L-3 L-2 L-1 Lynch/Hammer
Linkz HappyD  Radish    
HappyD FF
 
Radish linkz      
  Time limit    

 

FF votes HappyD
linkz unvotes HappyD and votes Radish
miz votes FF

You forgot to put my vote for F-F in the table.



Final-Fan on 15 December 2012
happydolphin said:
Final-Fan said:

There are indeed two logical possibilities:  scum-and-bussed, and town-and-true-scan.  You being bussed with tabaha night 1 if you're also town is just silly, so that's why if you are town the scan is specifically of you. 

Obviously, I consider the first logical possibility to be far more likely based on the evidence (things that have happened in this thread on which we all are basing our opinions). 

If I didn't acknowledge that there was any other possibility than you being scum and bussed, I would have said something like it's definitely true, rather than it's entirely possible. 

So you don't trust the scan based on my play. In other words, you have no evidence that the scan in and of itself is not trustworthy, apart from the possibility that I, as much as anybody else, could have been bussed (since anyone could be either mafia or town).

It's grasping, but you present it like a likelihood.

The evidence it's not TRUSTworthy is that the bus driver existed and we don't know who he swapped with tabaha.  Why is that grasping?  Can you point to why the bus driver wouldn't have swapped you if you were mafia?  Tell me why I should trust tabaha's scan of you was NOT falsified. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Final-Fan on 15 December 2012
happydolphin said:
Final-Fan said:

Well, if happy is scum and Linkz pushes his lynch, that is evidence he is not scum although a bus is plausible.  It would be something to look at in the following Day.  The point is, after Linkz's posts, I agreed with them.  So it comes down to "is happy scum?" not "is linkz deceiving me?".  The first question trumps the second.  If happy is scum, then even if Linkz is scum trying to gain town trust that is still an issue that can be settled after lynching the first scum. 

As for how persuasive Linkz's points really are, I just have to disagree with you.  I found them pretty persuasive.  Moreover, Linkz didn't back off because he was all that doubtful of his position, but rather because he was willing to lynch radish and just felt he had a better chance of getting town to go along with it.  So if he is convinced they are both the final two scum, there's really not that much incentive for him to go insane trying to win town to his position (I well remember his near-meltdowns previously this game, though I wasn't sure if it was an act or not) when he can ALSO vote for scum they are more amenable to lynching. 

@bold. No its doesn't, because I could be town AND Linkz would be deceiving you.

@Linkz targetting radish. Linkz CLEARLY said, a few times toDay, that Radish was his #1 scumspect, yet he went after me. That was inconsistent. Also, he said he had nothing to peg radish on yet he was his #1 scumspect, it just doesn't add up.

Add to that that I clearly addressed every SINGLE point linkz brought up against me, and brought up many against him, yet you haven't even considered them. If you truly were town, you wouldn't ignore the evidence I brought out against him. At least twice, I've listed a series of accusation against him that point to him being pretty damn scum. You make nothing of that?

If you need, ask me for the list again, I will get it for you. But for you to just say he was making sense after my defense and after my case against him is bs.

We were talking about why I voted you.  The first question trumps the second because if you are scum, then I can vote you regardless of whether Linkz is deceiving me; and if you are not scum then I should not vote you regardless of et cetera. 

If anything, Linkz's pushing you while loudly calling radish your scummate is interesting because scum ought to not want to alienate townies when it's not necessary.  But it is odd if as you say he cannot point to anything.  I will double check that when I'm committing more than 3 minutes at a time. 

Go ahead and reiterate your case, but on't dexpect miracles. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

miz1q2w3e on 15 December 2012
Final-Fan said:

There are indeed two logical possibilities:  scum-and-bussed, and town-and-true-scan.  You being bussed with tabaha night 1 if you're also town is just silly, so that's why if you are town the scan is specifically of you. 

Obviously, I consider the first logical possibility to be far more likely based on the evidence (things that have happened in this thread on which we all are basing our opinions). 

If I didn't acknowledge that there was any other possibility than you being scum and bussed, I would have said something like it's definitely true, rather than it's entirely possible. 

Evidence? Oh, do tell.