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Forums - Gaming - This is why me an other PC gamers gets annoyed by console graphic debates

Jaywood2010 on 20 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:
happydolphin said:
CGI-Quality said:

I think people should be entitled to praise the console/machine they favor to any degree that's reasonable. The thread that this topic counters was not only one person's opinion, but a non-inflammatory discussion. It did not require this topic nor the responses JayWood offered in there.

I think that's an assumption though. He may not have made this purely in reaction to the other thread, but it may have been something that bothered him for a long time.

People have put down other less powerful consoles in the past due to superiority of another, and I don't know how valid and reasonable that is in light of the PC's HW superiority.

It's not really an assumption, when anyone with two functioning eyes knows what sparked this discussion. What people have done/felt in the past is irrelevant when that thread wasn't created to put down any other machine. 

As I have said, this topic was made based solely on an insecurity, and many PC fans don't agree with how he went about it, despite agreeing that consoles are behind them (something else that didn't require pointing out).


Maybe I shouldnt have pointed it out but I did not bring PC up until the end or any console for that matter.  You are making this sound very one sided but you know why I did this too




       

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deskpro2k3 on 20 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:
happydolphin said:
CGI-Quality said:

I think people should be entitled to praise the console/machine they favor to any degree that's reasonable. The thread that this topic counters was not only one person's opinion, but a non-inflammatory discussion. It did not require this topic nor the responses JayWood offered in there.

I think that's an assumption though. He may not have made this purely in reaction to the other thread, but it may have been something that bothered him for a long time.

People have put down other less powerful consoles in the past due to superiority of another, and I don't know how valid and reasonable that is in light of the PC's HW superiority.

It's not really an assumption, when anyone with two functioning eyes knows what sparked this discussion. What people have done/felt in the past is irrelevant when that thread wasn't created to put down any other machine. 

As I have said, this topic was made based solely on an insecurity, and many PC fans don't agree with how he went about it, despite agreeing that consoles are behind them (something else that didn't require pointing out).


Yeah, it was pretty much obscenity, propaganda, and other expressions unrelated to the thread.



happydolphin on 20 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:

It's not really an assumption, when anyone with two functioning eyes knows what sparked this discussion. What people have done/felt in the past is irrelevant when that thread wasn't created to put down any other machine.

I work off a brail computer, so I feel kind of insulted.

As I have said, this topic was made based solely on an insecurity, and many PC fans don't agree with how he went about it, despite agreeing that consoles are behind PCs (something else that didn't require pointing out)

You haven't been a majoritarily PC fan for all that long I don't think it's really up to you to speak on the behalf of the PC community in general. To also note your penchant for the PS3, it makes your stance biased, imho.

I think it's a fair OP, in that he is simply stating the obvious, that some people have the wrong attitude when it comes to the HW capabilities of the PS3, and that obviously is not a fun attitude, especially in light of how much better PCs are from a spec perspective.

I agree with OP and I've been playing computer games for longer than I've been playing Nintendo games. So...

Though I play PC games since as long as I can remember, I've never really put that much importance on graphical prowess, my favorite games were never the cutting edge, but simply the best (Blizzard games mostly).



Hynad on 20 November 2012
JayWood2010 said:


That idea you ahve about motion capture is nonsensical. Most of the movements in current gen games use motion capture. Unlike the method used in L.A. Noire, it doesn't change the polygonal aspect of the graphics at all. The console still has to push a given amount of polygons, texture quality, etc, in real time. ¬_¬

I'd be with you if everything was a pre-rendered video being streamed during that kinf of scene, but it Quantic Dream's case, they do all their cut-scene using real time rendering.


And these are the comments i dont mind talking about.  I was never upset until the end of that thread last night.

And yes I do know it is real time rendering and that it is highly detailed, not what I'm trying to say.  Let me use Last of Us for example.  That game looks great on the PS3 from what we have seen, and it also appears to be non  scripted.  I find that to be more impressive due to the multiple things going on, the focus on the AI at the same time gameplay.  So much is going on all at once so your processing power will be going all over the place.  In Beyond there isn't as much going on, it is very scripted and is why you can use motion capture.  This is why in game cutscenes look better than the actual game.  Even look at Halo 4.  Halo 4 has CGI cutscenes which I'm not talking about, but it also has in game cutscenes.  These look better than the actual game because it is more focused on that than everything at once.  The thing is the PS3 has games to showcase its power already, this is just showcasing it in a different way. 

That doesn't change anything now does it.

What you're saying is that YOU are not impressed by what is shown, for these specific reasons. But that doesn't mean everyone have to share your criterias when it comes to the subject. 

I'm way more impressed by cut-scenes such as these, running in real-time, than I am by the CGI ones. Because the former uses the actual ressources of the hardware, rather than going the "easy" route. Showing what the console can achieve visually if you really want to push things, rather than taking the pre-rendered shortcut.

And I wish Square-Enix would take this route for future Final Fantasy games. 



happydolphin on 20 November 2012
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
if you dont like those debates dont bother go to those threads, stay away from them .

Again, that's not the point.

He's saying that the attitudes in those threads are unreasonable, not the debates themselves (and I agree with him). See here for the clarification:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4902746



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happydolphin on 20 November 2012
CGI-Quality said:

I really don't care what you think regarding myself as a PC fan (especially when that, in and of itself, is irrelevant). If you look through the thread, I can speak on behalf of nearly everyone when I say this topic was born off of an insecurity, and your defense of it exposes your own.

Irony of it is I said that I agreed with Jay's point, but selective reading takes center stage when it doesn't fit your argument.

@bold. Nope. Miz agrees with me, and I agree with me, and so does jaywood. Also, tads contributed with his own opinion on the matter, whether he agrees with OP or not, the topic was a platform for him to express his displeasure with people having the wrong focus in graphics discussions.

I have only one insecurity, and that is, am I correct in thinking that certain PS3 fans have an unfounded attitude of superiority. I'm still insecure about it because I am still not sure, hence why I'm here debating it.

If you agree with Jay's point, why have you been so against it since the start of the thread, hmm? Your stance does not hold together.



Jaywood2010 on 20 November 2012
pezus said:
happydolphin said:
Guys, OT, do you agree that it's silly for certain people to assume that their console is godlike when the PC is in the room?

Some people are fans of the Wii for example, and it isn't fun when fans of another console put down that excitement just because their console is more powerful. The games are what excite us in the end, not the HW specs, right?

Just like Sony is put down for "copying" Nintendo, Nintendo should be put down for skimping on hardware power. I don't see a problem with it honestly, because in reality you're only comparing two to three consoles and their capabilities in a confined space. Everyone knows that including PC would be auto-loss for any console so they don't include it.


The whole Sony copies Nintendo thing gets old too.  Everybody copies everybody in the industry and that is how things progress.  




       

Hynad on 20 November 2012
happydolphin said:
CGI-Quality said:

I really don't care what you think regarding myself as a PC fan (especially when that, in and of itself, is irrelevant). If you look through the thread, I can speak on behalf of nearly everyone when I say this topic was born off of an insecurity, and your defense of it exposes your own.

Irony of it is I said that I agreed with Jay's point, but selective reading takes center stage when it doesn't fit your argument.

@bold. Nope. Miz agrees with me, and I agree with me, and so does jaywood. Also, tads contributed with his own opinion on the matter, whether he agrees with OP or not, the topic was a platform for him to express his displeasure with people having the wrong focus in graphics discussions.

I have only one insecurity, and that is, am I correct in thinking that certain PS3 fans have an unfounded attitude of superiority. I'm still insecure about it because I am still not sure, hence why I'm here debating it.

If you agree with Jay's point, why have you been so against it since the start of the thread, hmm? Your stance does not hold together.


Halo 4 is proof enough that the 360 and PS3 are on par with each others, when it comes to graphical capabilities. It all comes down to the quality of the devs behind the games. Although I must point out that there are still nothing on the 360 that rivals God of War 3's achievements (to my modest eyes, of course). :P




Veknoid_Outcast on 20 November 2012

I'm hesitant to wander into this minefield, but I do think that some video game fans disregard the PC when its inclusion would damage their arguments, and include it when its exclusion would damage their arguments. More importantly, I think graphics in general are being overvalued.



Jaywood2010 on 20 November 2012
Hynad said:
JayWood2010 said:


That idea you ahve about motion capture is nonsensical. Most of the movements in current gen games use motion capture. Unlike the method used in L.A. Noire, it doesn't change the polygonal aspect of the graphics at all. The console still has to push a given amount of polygons, texture quality, etc, in real time. ¬_¬

I'd be with you if everything was a pre-rendered video being streamed during that kinf of scene, but it Quantic Dream's case, they do all their cut-scene using real time rendering.


And these are the comments i dont mind talking about.  I was never upset until the end of that thread last night.

And yes I do know it is real time rendering and that it is highly detailed, not what I'm trying to say.  Let me use Last of Us for example.  That game looks great on the PS3 from what we have seen, and it also appears to be non  scripted.  I find that to be more impressive due to the multiple things going on, the focus on the AI at the same time gameplay.  So much is going on all at once so your processing power will be going all over the place.  In Beyond there isn't as much going on, it is very scripted and is why you can use motion capture.  This is why in game cutscenes look better than the actual game.  Even look at Halo 4.  Halo 4 has CGI cutscenes which I'm not talking about, but it also has in game cutscenes.  These look better than the actual game because it is more focused on that than everything at once.  The thing is the PS3 has games to showcase its power already, this is just showcasing it in a different way. 

That doesn't change anything now does it.

What you're saying is that YOU are not impressed by what is shown, for these specific reasons. But that doesn't mean everyone have to share your criterias when it comes to the subject. 

I'm way more impressed by cut-scenes such as these, running in real-time, than I am by the CGI ones. Because the former uses the actual ressources of the hardware, rather than going the "easy" route. Showing what the console can achieve visually if you really want to push things, rather than taking the pre-rendered shortcut.

And I wish Square-Enix would take this route for future Final Fantasy games. 


And that is perfectly fine.  And yes I am more impressed with real time than CGI.  It doesn't bother me what they do though as long as the game turns out good.  And yes I am impressed with what was shown but it isn't putting out more power than other games already out is what I was saying.  And no not everyone has to share the same criterias, completely agreed.