Kowen? Where did you go?

dallas said: Ok, so which product marketing strategy is working better so far? Which is gaining market share faster?

Considering how Google makes no money from the Android OS and that the people who buy cheap phones tend to not use their data functionality as much (meaning less app sales per customer and less advertising revenue via Google's services), using straight marketshare isn't the greatest comparison in the world, especially when you're comparing it to Apple, which makes a boatload on the hardware and then turns around and makes another boatload on the software (iPhone users buy far more apps than other phone owners).

I'm not slighting Google or Android at all; both offer services/features I admire. But when a large segment of your "market dominance" comes from people from which you make zero or virtually zero money, using straight marketshare numbers is pretty useless.

I haven't checked in awhile but I know that very recently, Apple turned a higher profit from the iPhone than Google did as a company. One product versus an entire company and Apple still came out on top. While marketshare and volume numbers might impress fanboys while squawking on internet forums, shareholders and companies tend to prefer making actual money.

And when it comes to actual profit, Apple is the top dog by a significant margin.

Incorrect. Android phones tend to shuttle users to other google services which provides what the company sells, namely advertising.

Google+, google search, chrome, etc are all used here and all direct users to google.com and/or use advertising to make the service profitable.

dallas said: Incorrect. Android phones tend to shuttle users to other google services which provides what the company sells, namely advertising. Google+, google search, chrome, etc are all used here and all direct users to google.com and/or use advertising to make the service profitable.

You didn't read what I posted. People who buy cheap Android phones use their phones less often. That means they use Google services less often, as well.

Again, if marketshare is so important, why does Apple make more (or at least a similar amount) from the iPhone than Google does as a company?

rocketpig said: dallas said: Incorrect. Android phones tend to shuttle users to other google services which provides what the company sells, namely advertising. Google+, google search, chrome, etc are all used here and all direct users to google.com and/or use advertising to make the service profitable. You didn't read what I posted. People who buy cheap Android phones use their phones less often. That means they use Google services less often, as well. Again, if marketshare is so important, why does Apple make more (or at least a similar amount) from the iPhone than Google does as a company?

I doubt that apple makes as much on the iPhone as it did bc it is starting to get passed up, and it never was bad at least marketshare wise for them. Siss you see the thread where 3 out of 4 smartphones sold are android? Take out RIMM and windows phone from this 25% and you have apples marketshare, which has really declined lately. And they don't need as much marketshare bc the consumers of apple products have more money, but that doesn't mean that apples top revenue spot can still remain with things going downhill a bit.

dallas said: rocketpig said: dallas said: Incorrect. Android phones tend to shuttle users to other google services which provides what the company sells, namely advertising. Google+, google search, chrome, etc are all used here and all direct users to google.com and/or use advertising to make the service profitable. You didn't read what I posted. People who buy cheap Android phones use their phones less often. That means they use Google services less often, as well. Again, if marketshare is so important, why does Apple make more (or at least a similar amount) from the iPhone than Google does as a company? I doubt that apple makes as much on the iPhone as it did bc it is starting to get passed up, and it never was bad at least marketshare wise for them. Siss you see the thread where 3 out of 4 smartphones sold are android? Take out RIMM and windows phone from this 25% and you have apples marketshare, which has really declined lately. And they don't need as much marketshare bc the consumers of apple products have more money, but that doesn't mean that apples top revenue spot can still remain with things going downhill a bit.

Apple continues to sell more iPhones every year and turns a higher profit on the iPhone every year. Again, marketshare is somewhat unimportant (note that I say "somewhat) when a huge segment of that growth is coming from zero profit or small profit phones.

Somewhat unimportant for apple perhaps

dallas said: Somewhat unimportant for apple perhaps

Or, more likely, an important point for fanboys to argue about on internet forums. Businesses offer services and sell products to make money. Apple is much better at making money than Google. It's nice for Google to have a huge slice of the market but it hasn't turned into enormous profits for them compared to Apple's closed strategy and smaller marketshare. If Windows 8 Phone becomes a player in the high-end phone market (and here's hoping they do), Google could see their high profit phones marginalized as a third option becomes viable for high-usage (and therefore, high-profit) customers. It's very possible that by offering an open and slow to update operating system that depends largely on carrier support to code/update the OS, Google has positioned themselves to dominate the lowest profit phones. That's not a good thing. I'm not saying that's what is going to happen but it's a real possibility. Google's OS strategy has its flaws, just as Microsoft and Apple have their own flaws.

rocketpig said: dallas said: Somewhat unimportant for apple perhaps Or, more likely, an important point for fanboys to argue about on internet forums. Businesses offer services and sell products to make money. Apple is much better at making money than Google. It's nice for Google to have a huge slice of the market but it hasn't turned into enormous profits for them compared to Apple's closed strategy and smaller marketshare. If Windows 8 Phone becomes a player in the high-end phone market (and here's hoping they do), Google could see their high profit phones marginalized as a third option becomes viable for high-usage (and therefore, high-profit) customers. It's very possible that by offering an open and slow to update operating system that depends largely on carrier support to code/update the OS, Google has positioned themselves to dominate the lowest profit phones. That's not a good thing. I'm not saying that's what is going to happen but it's a real possibility. Google's OS strategy has its flaws, just as Microsoft and Apple have their own flaws.

Well Microsoft is moving to a new era for the company as its products are going to be focused more and more on tablets and mobile.  The issue for Microsoft is that it has basically been given a free lunch with the pc market bc the monopoly that it has long enjoyed isnt too difficult to maintain, but now it is moving to a more competive market as the pc business loses to mobile and tablets.  I'm not giving you a doom and gloom speech at all, but regardless it should be getting less profit margin than it has simply bc it has to work harder.  

 

And the analyst expectations are in line with this, anyway.  Would you like me to post some revenue expectations, eps estimates, etc?  I can give you analyst expectations of why the boys in Redmond just won't be as hot as they have been.  

dallas said: rocketpig said: dallas said: Somewhat unimportant for apple perhaps Or, more likely, an important point for fanboys to argue about on internet forums. Businesses offer services and sell products to make money. Apple is much better at making money than Google. It's nice for Google to have a huge slice of the market but it hasn't turned into enormous profits for them compared to Apple's closed strategy and smaller marketshare. If Windows 8 Phone becomes a player in the high-end phone market (and here's hoping they do), Google could see their high profit phones marginalized as a third option becomes viable for high-usage (and therefore, high-profit) customers. It's very possible that by offering an open and slow to update operating system that depends largely on carrier support to code/update the OS, Google has positioned themselves to dominate the lowest profit phones. That's not a good thing. I'm not saying that's what is going to happen but it's a real possibility. Google's OS strategy has its flaws, just as Microsoft and Apple have their own flaws. Well Microsoft is moving to a new era for the company as its products are going to be focused more and more on tablets and mobile.  The issue for Microsoft is that it has basically been given a free lunch with the pc market bc the monopoly that it has long enjoyed isnt too difficult to maintain, but now it is moving to a more competive market as the pc business loses to mobile and tablets.  I'm not giving you a doom and gloom speech at all, but regardless it should be getting less profit margin than it has simply bc it has to work harder.   And the analyst expectations are in line with this, anyway.  Would you like me to post some revenue expectations, eps estimates, etc?  I can give you analyst expectations of why the boys in Redmond just won't be as hot as they have been.

I've been following this game for a long time. I'm well aware that Microsoft has a long, difficult road in front of it if they crack this market. I've followed MS through four major OS reboots in the past decade. If they continue down that path, they will continue to marginalize themselves.

On the other hand, MS still has a few things going for it:

1. Nokia. Outside of Apple, they're the best hardware manufacturer on the market. Sleek, elegant design packaged into some mighty fine hardware.
2. The best UI in the mobile space. Win8 is the most forward-thinking UIX on the market by a country mile. Now it's a matter of getting it in front of eyeballs. Can they do that? Dunno.
3. Windows still carries a lot of power. The overwhelming majority of businesses run on Windows. If MS can integrate its mobile offering more fully than Google and Apple, they can (once again) lock up enterprise.

Can Microsoft turn this to their advantage in coming years? I don't know and I'm skeptical, if only because they have blundered through the mobile space for so long. But if they pull their quite considerable assets together and organize their offerings, they're still in a position to grab a large portion of the market.