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Forums - Politics - What is worse? 20% across the board income tax cut or cutting medicare by 716 billion?

richardhutnik on 04 November 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
richardhutnik said:

What the heck is the alternative to not buying health insurance, outside of not having any?  You can toot your horn about "freedom" all you want, but the mandate is there to make sure you pay into the system to keep emergency room services going.  Also, the original idea was not to have a mandate, but to have state by state run markets where you could buy what you wanted, get subsidies when you came short, and have the government step in with a state run insurance program, that people could buy, if they didn't like the others, and no mandate. But, guess what happened?  Well, the insurance companies stepped in, along with GOP opposition and shot that down.  So, Romneycare came in, and had mandates plus subsidies and you had to buy from the market of insurance plans.

The reality is, there are NO other alternatives to insurance at this point.


You must have misread my post.

...use an alternative. Oh wait, you can't because you're much beloved Government have made it physically impossible for you to use any other kind of health model, and made it a taxable event to not own health insurance....

There's no alternative to health insurance any more because Government made it impossible for any alternative. Not talking about Obamacare here, but all Government "regulations" and "interventions" in healthcare since the dawn of time.

"Herp derp it was Party A or Person X that did Y". Whether it was Republicans or Democrats who wrote the laws, I couldn't give less of a shit.

You want to know what the alternative most nations in the west that are first-world?  It is a nationalized healthcare system.  There is no insurance people pay for.

And pardon a bit of irony here.  You aren't from the United States, so why are you complaining?  You don't even have a clue what it is like to live under this system.



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Ail on 04 November 2012

What I find really ironic is that both sides says that Medicare can't go on the way it is right now as the cost is getting out of control.
Yet Obama is getting crucified for cutting Medicare expenses.........



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ail on 04 November 2012
Kasz216 said:
nuckles87 said:

Obama isn't for killing medicare. You've been lied to. The 716 billion isn't cutting money from benefits. The cuts are being made on the provider/hospital side to curb waste, fraud and abuse in the program.


Which you know... is just going to lead to doctors and hosptials refusing to take anymore medicare patients. 

Heck with the flood of newly forced insured patients, they'd be crazy to do so.

Essentially it's going to be near impossible to find a medicare doctor... and when you do... they will probably suck.


Yep as the population of the US ages and more and more people are under medicare it makes total sense to refuse to sell your services to that segment of the market ( the biggest and fastest growing segment by far).

/sarcasm off



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

SamuelRSmith on 05 November 2012
richardhutnik said:

You want to know what the alternative most nations in the west that are first-world?  It is a nationalized healthcare system.  There is no insurance people pay for.

And pardon a bit of irony here.  You aren't from the United States, so why are you complaining?  You don't even have a clue what it is like to live under this system.


People don't pay for insurance in nationalised healthcare systems? lol, right. Guess all that "National Insurance" went to nothing, then. Clearly, you have no clue what it's like to live under the British system. If you did, you'd know why I'd be complaining about the path of American healthcare.

I love the way you feel the need to tell me that the rest of the "first world" has a national health program, and then acknowledge that I actually come from somewhere in the "rest of the world".

But is that the box you live in? For you, are the only alternatives what America has now, and what the rest of the "first world" has? Is "freedom" so far gone from your mindset, that you don't even consider it an alternative?



SamuelRSmith on 05 November 2012
Ail said:

Yep as the population of the US ages and more and more people are under medicare it makes total sense to refuse to sell your services to that segment of the market ( the biggest and fastest growing segment by far).

/sarcasm off

Hey, Audi should start selling their cars at below-cost in India. It would be their largest market, doesn't matter that they won't make a profit, they'd be stupid not to sell to this massive market, potentially their largest.

/sarcasm off



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Kasz216 on 05 November 2012
Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
nuckles87 said:

Obama isn't for killing medicare. You've been lied to. The 716 billion isn't cutting money from benefits. The cuts are being made on the provider/hospital side to curb waste, fraud and abuse in the program.


Which you know... is just going to lead to doctors and hosptials refusing to take anymore medicare patients. 

Heck with the flood of newly forced insured patients, they'd be crazy to do so.

Essentially it's going to be near impossible to find a medicare doctor... and when you do... they will probably suck.


Yep as the population of the US ages and more and more people are under medicare it makes total sense to refuse to sell your services to that segment of the market ( the biggest and fastest growing segment by far).

/sarcasm off

Doctor's aren't like car makers or anything.

They have a limtied amount of time, and lots of people wanting what they provide....  a lot of doctors already refuse Medicare.

http://www.theday.com/article/20120201/NWS01/302019965/-1/NWS

 

Medicare patients already actually have trouble finding primary care doctors and the like, only really making it easy to find specialists... because speicalists make decent money under medicare.



Ail on 05 November 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
Ail said:

Yep as the population of the US ages and more and more people are under medicare it makes total sense to refuse to sell your services to that segment of the market ( the biggest and fastest growing segment by far).

/sarcasm off

Hey, Audi should start selling their cars at below-cost in India. It would be their largest market, doesn't matter that they won't make a profit, they'd be stupid not to sell to this massive market, potentially their largest.

/sarcasm off

Audi India sales are up 55% so far this year...

Google is your friend..



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

spaceguy on 05 November 2012

Actually gary johnson wants to do 43% cuts across the board. To Defense, Medicare, SS Etc....



SamuelRSmith on 05 November 2012
Ail said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Hey, Audi should start selling their cars at below-cost in India. It would be their largest market, doesn't matter that they won't make a profit, they'd be stupid not to sell to this massive market, potentially their largest.

/sarcasm off

Audi India sales are up 55% so far this year...

Google is your friend..


I bolded the part you apparently missed.



richardhutnik on 05 November 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
richardhutnik said:

You want to know what the alternative most nations in the west that are first-world?  It is a nationalized healthcare system.  There is no insurance people pay for.

And pardon a bit of irony here.  You aren't from the United States, so why are you complaining?  You don't even have a clue what it is like to live under this system.


People don't pay for insurance in nationalised healthcare systems? lol, right. Guess all that "National Insurance" went to nothing, then. Clearly, you have no clue what it's like to live under the British system. If you did, you'd know why I'd be complaining about the path of American healthcare.

I love the way you feel the need to tell me that the rest of the "first world" has a national health program, and then acknowledge that I actually come from somewhere in the "rest of the world".

But is that the box you live in? For you, are the only alternatives what America has now, and what the rest of the "first world" has? Is "freedom" so far gone from your mindset, that you don't even consider it an alternative?

What other values do you have besides "freedom"?  Myself, I have a multitude of others, and realize "freedom" isn't what most people want. What most people want is existence bending towards their wills.  "Freedom" is merely a label thrown around to have things not get in the way of their wills being carried out.  Freedom in the hands of an idiot is hell for others.  Freedom in the hands of powerless individuals, who lack resources, is hell to them.  Freedom alone says nothing about direction or what to do, or even shoulds and ideals.

For me, the preference for healthcare would be what works to help people maxmize the longevity and quality of their lives.  And on that count, the American system is very expensive and delivers mediocre results.  

But hey, if your own value is "freedom" them more power to your Libertarian/Anarchist view.  Needless to say, most people have more values than "freedom".