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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft screwed up with the Surface tablet...

ECM said:

I agree w/ the OP, BUT is anyone surprised by this? This is another, desperate, 'me too!' attempt by Ballmer Co., which has proven, repeatedly, that it simply can't make money outside of their core competency of OS' and Office apps. They *need* new blood in this company *desperately* and until they get rid of the dinosaurs steering the ship, repeatedly, onto the rocks, it won't happen at the top which is where it is in most desperate need of a transfusion.

 (And please: don't even bring up the XBOX brand as a "success"*--it's only a success in the sense that it, finally, after losing untold billions, is turning small profits. From a biz standpoint, the XBOX brand is another loser but in light of things like Zune (and the pile of acquisitions that turned to ****), and perhaps Surface, it's a freaking overnight success story.)

*This is not a knock on the games, so settle down fanboys.

I'm not sure I agree with you as Microsoft makes lots of money outside their windows and office division. They are the most diverse out of all these tech giants.

Also windows 8 is a very bold, risky, challenging and quite awesome. Definitely  not a me too product.

Surface is the only strike I have on Microsoft lately and I don't want this to turn to Microsoft bashing. 



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mmmmm. It would seem theres different people out there with different markets in mind.

Firstly, Im no longer interested in any desktop mode at all. I want a device that I can use easily to take to a friends house. Use the web. Connect a printer. Watch Videos. Links with WP8 ( which surface RT has exactly the same Windows arcitecture hence the double apps incoming ) and talks to Xbox.

Also it has full Microsoft Office 2013 Home and Student Edition. Which I can use to print letters, CV's, etc. Use excel to monitor a business or make spreadsheets which I can take wit me and print anywhere. Etc.

The fact that its priced at the same price as an Ipad is amazing. As all reviews say its far more functional than an Ipad and is more like a PC in its uses.

As far as apps are concerned WP8 and Surface RT both start from scratch. As niether share any Windows architecture from WP7 or Windows 7. A move Microsoft had to make to improve the underlying performances of the OS's. Now any app made for Windows 8 sares identical architecture to WP8, meaning more than likely more apps will be available as theres a larger pool of consumers. Lets face it Windows 7 on PC's didnt have apps. Only phones.

Now they can share them.

On the subject of passing by the wayside. Surface RT is sold out on preorders. Its selling well and hasnt even released.

Also unlike Android and Ipad according to reviews Surface RT also contains more ports than any other tablet. Shipping with a fullsized USB 2.0 port, Headphone jack and Micro HDMI port.

Concerning the performance of RT ARM arcitecture it would seem its a small issue regarding apps. Wich Microsoft claim is fixed and the update rolls out in a couple of weeks. Likely before I get mine. As far as the speed of OS tis review had this to say.

"The Surface pushes Windows 8's general interface along smoothly, and the architecture lets it function like the iPad or smartphones. It boots up in under 30 seconds, resumes from sleep in under three seconds, and lasts nearly nine hours on a charge when playing video. (I got considerably less battery life when just using it to write and surf the web). This isn't like the PCs you have come to know; there's no time to get a cup of coffee as it boots or the need to drag a clunky charger everywhere."

Any issue regarding apps available Microsoft say as of October 26 they will allow the apps waiting to release on the store. They have held all back for release day. As Windows 8 passes 2,3 and 400 million copies sold in the first year App devs wont be able to ignore the massive userbase. A userbase that dwarfs Iphone and Ipad. The fact is even desktop PC's will be able to access Apps.



Nsanity said:
This device is way overpriced.


Out of curiosity do you think IPAD is overpriced?

Considering Surface does considerably more than an Ipad I would say if Surface is overpriced then IPad must be destroying the Ozone layer with its price.



selnor said:
Nsanity said:
This device is way overpriced.


Out of curiosity do you think IPAD is overpriced?

Considering Surface does considerably more than an Ipad I would say if Surface is overpriced then IPad must be destroying the Ozone layer with its price.

I think both devices are overpriced.



selnor said:
mmmmm. It would seem theres different people out there with different markets in mind.

Firstly, Im no longer interested in any desktop mode at all. I want a device that I can use easily to take to a friends house. Use the web. Connect a printer. Watch Videos. Links with WP8 ( which surface RT has exactly the same Windows arcitecture hence the double apps incoming ) and talks to Xbox.

Also it has full Microsoft Office 2013 Home and Student Edition. Which I can use to print letters, CV's, etc. Use excel to monitor a business or make spreadsheets which I can take wit me and print anywhere. Etc.

The fact that its priced at the same price as an Ipad is amazing. As all reviews say its far more functional than an Ipad and is more like a PC in its uses.

As far as apps are concerned WP8 and Surface RT both start from scratch. As niether share any Windows architecture from WP7 or Windows 7. A move Microsoft had to make to improve the underlying performances of the OS's. Now any app made for Windows 8 sares identical architecture to WP8, meaning more than likely more apps will be available as theres a larger pool of consumers. Lets face it Windows 7 on PC's didnt have apps. Only phones.

Now they can share them.

On the subject of passing by the wayside. Surface RT is sold out on preorders. Its selling well and hasnt even released.

Also unlike Android and Ipad according to reviews Surface RT also contains more ports than any other tablet. Shipping with a fullsized USB 2.0 port, Headphone jack and Micro HDMI port.

Concerning the performance of RT ARM arcitecture it would seem its a small issue regarding apps. Wich Microsoft claim is fixed and the update rolls out in a couple of weeks. Likely before I get mine. As far as the speed of OS tis review had this to say.

"The Surface pushes Windows 8's general interface along smoothly, and the architecture lets it function like the iPad or smartphones. It boots up in under 30 seconds, resumes from sleep in under three seconds, and lasts nearly nine hours on a charge when playing video. (I got considerably less battery life when just using it to write and surf the web). This isn't like the PCs you have come to know; there's no time to get a cup of coffee as it boots or the need to drag a clunky charger everywhere."

Any issue regarding apps available Microsoft say as of October 26 they will allow the apps waiting to release on the store. They have held all back for release day. As Windows 8 passes 2,3 and 400 million copies sold in the first year App devs wont be able to ignore the massive userbase. A userbase that dwarfs Iphone and Ipad. The fact is even desktop PC's will be able to access Apps.

^^^^^

This X1000000000000000



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selnor said:
mmmmm. It would seem theres different people out there with different markets in mind.

Firstly, Im no longer interested in any desktop mode at all. I want a device that I can use easily to take to a friends house. Use the web. Connect a printer. Watch Videos. Links with WP8 ( which surface RT has exactly the same Windows arcitecture hence the double apps incoming ) and talks to Xbox.

Also it has full Microsoft Office 2013 Home and Student Edition. Which I can use to print letters, CV's, etc. Use excel to monitor a business or make spreadsheets which I can take wit me and print anywhere. Etc.

The fact that its priced at the same price as an Ipad is amazing. As all reviews say its far more functional than an Ipad and is more like a PC in its uses.

As far as apps are concerned WP8 and Surface RT both start from scratch. As niether share any Windows architecture from WP7 or Windows 7. A move Microsoft had to make to improve the underlying performances of the OS's. Now any app made for Windows 8 sares identical architecture to WP8, meaning more than likely more apps will be available as theres a larger pool of consumers. Lets face it Windows 7 on PC's didnt have apps. Only phones.

Now they can share them.

On the subject of passing by the wayside. Surface RT is sold out on preorders. Its selling well and hasnt even released.

Also unlike Android and Ipad according to reviews Surface RT also contains more ports than any other tablet. Shipping with a fullsized USB 2.0 port, Headphone jack and Micro HDMI port.

Concerning the performance of RT ARM arcitecture it would seem its a small issue regarding apps. Wich Microsoft claim is fixed and the update rolls out in a couple of weeks. Likely before I get mine. As far as the speed of OS tis review had this to say.

"The Surface pushes Windows 8's general interface along smoothly, and the architecture lets it function like the iPad or smartphones. It boots up in under 30 seconds, resumes from sleep in under three seconds, and lasts nearly nine hours on a charge when playing video. (I got considerably less battery life when just using it to write and surf the web). This isn't like the PCs you have come to know; there's no time to get a cup of coffee as it boots or the need to drag a clunky charger everywhere."

Any issue regarding apps available Microsoft say as of October 26 they will allow the apps waiting to release on the store. They have held all back for release day. As Windows 8 passes 2,3 and 400 million copies sold in the first year App devs wont be able to ignore the massive userbase. A userbase that dwarfs Iphone and Ipad. The fact is even desktop PC's will be able to access Apps.


All you are doing here is marginalizing all of the gazillion weakneses that Win RT has while hyping the few advantages it has and pretending that is all consumers will be interested in. People are preordering it because it looks cool, but they have no clue what they will end up with.  This may hurt Microsoft in the long run actually.

As someone who has had a true Windows 8 tablet for a while(Acer W500), it somewhat pisses me off to see these reviewers bitch about how laggy the Win RT is, how there are no apps, how borwsing chugs and flash runs like crap. Windows 8 running on the lowest specd x86 processor has none of these issues...

In the current apps state one would have to be completely bonkers to get Surface over the iPad if all they want to do is browse and consume content. I was playing Call of Duty 4 and Portal 2 on my Acer W500 Win 8 tablet few months back which the iPad can not do. Sadly I cant play any of my game catalog on RT and have to purchase games from scratch. I can also forget about emulators.  Even spec wise, the iPad 4 with its A6X processor absolutely destroys the Surface and its Tegra 3.

But you say there is productivity which you can do with the Surface but not the iPad... Lets look at that.

The Office 2013 that is included you speak of...well it's missing key features like macros. Also you are not allowed LEGALLY to use it in a corporate environment. Consumer use only. Read the license agreement... So technically I can't even use it for work. And I can't install the awesome Office 2007 on it which I purcahsed for 200 bucks 3 years ago.  Moving on about productivity, it is very fussy when it comes to printing. HP and Dell announced that over 50% of their printers will not work with Win RT. 

Im sorry, but this is not a productivity device.

Lastly no one seems to understand why Windows RT exists. Windows 8 running on an Atom processor does everything Win RT does but better and has legacy support, similar battery life and costs the same (Asus and Acer are charging 499 for their Win 8 x86 Atom tablets).

Honestly there are more holes in Microsofts current Surface strategy than Swiss cheese. What they should have done is released an x86 based Surface first. $500 bucks for Atom $899 for i5. Then 6 months later when apps are there, they should have released a Win RT ARM based Surface...

That or never bother making Win RT in the first place.



^^^
To add, I actually don't think general consumers understand what they got with Microsoft Surface and Windows RT as I don't think MS did a good job explaining the difference between Windows RT and Windows 8.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

Yeah, RT sounds like a mistake all together. It should simply be the windows phone on an inexpensive tablet. See what Google did with the Nexus 7 or the specialized features of the Samsung Note 10?... that is how you break into the tablet market. Other Android OEMs already proved you're not going to do it with a high-end tablet directly competing at the price point of iPad, even with better features they didn't do well.

WinRT should have been a 7ish inch device with winphone and price similar to Nexus7. Then $50 or so more for the awesome keyboard attachment.

Pro can be the $600 device as it can truly replace a laptop. That one should be full Windows and simply priced to create market. However, it will be nice but priced too high. I'm betting close to $900 which is at least $200 too much.



superchunk said:

Yeah, RT sounds like a mistake all together. It should simply be the windows phone on an inexpensive tablet. See what Google did with the Nexus 7 or the specialized features of the Samsung Note 10?... that is how you break into the tablet market. Other Android OEMs already proved you're not going to do it with a high-end tablet directly competing at the price point of iPad, even with better features they didn't do well.

WinRT should have been a 7ish inch device with winphone and price similar to Nexus7. Then $50 or so more for the awesome keyboard attachment.

Pro can be the $600 device as it can truly replace a laptop. That one should be full Windows and simply priced to create market. However, it will be nice but priced too high. I'm betting close to $900 which is at least $200 too much.

The problem is that only way Google can sell you a tablet over an ipad is if its under 200 bucks. Microsoft has no business selling tablets anyways. They sell software, and a race to the bottom doesnt work for them as well as it does for google.

I do agree that Win RT really shouldnt exist. A 7 inch Windows phone 8 device could be a fun side project or a stop gap until Windows 9 goes all touch and scales down to smaller devices.



ECM said:

I agree w/ the OP, BUT is anyone surprised by this? This is another, desperate, 'me too!' attempt by Ballmer Co., which has proven, repeatedly, that it simply can't make money outside of their core competency of OS' and Office apps. They *need* new blood in this company *desperately* and until they get rid of the dinosaurs steering the ship, repeatedly, onto the rocks, it won't happen at the top which is where it is in most desperate need of a transfusion.

 (And please: don't even bring up the XBOX brand as a "success"*--it's only a success in the sense that it, finally, after losing untold billions, is turning small profits. From a biz standpoint, the XBOX brand is another loser but in light of things like Zune (and the pile of acquisitions that turned to ****), and perhaps Surface, it's a freaking overnight success story.)

*This is not a knock on the games, so settle down fanboys.


XBOX is now a profitable, world wide known brand. Microsoft can now also use it to leverage it with their other products/Window devices. It helps to diversify Microsoft's protfolio. It has a large and engaging userbase. And it also helped deleverage Sony and other companies from completely taking over the living room space and hurting it's Windows division, which was it's only real goal at birth. How can you label it, not a success?  Because a company had to invest capital at it's inception to get it off the ground? That makes no sense. We might as well label Google buying Motorola, not a success either. Since it spent $12 Billion buying it and it lost half a billion dollars last quarter. Progress and time means nothing about success to you, lets just label things failures squarely on the initial cost of something.