There is nothing disgusting in that quote at all. That's the world we live in. but thats an issue you need to take up with god if there is one, which for the quote to even remotely be offensive one must assume there is.
There is nothing disgusting in that quote at all. That's the world we live in. but thats an issue you need to take up with god if there is one, which for the quote to even remotely be offensive one must assume there is.
bluesinG said:
Here's the key part of Mourdock's statement: "I think that even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that is something God intended to happen." You could take that to mean Mourdock believes (a) God intends some rapes to happen, and/or (b) when some rapes happen, God intends the woman to become pregnant from it." I don't agree with either version of the statement. Do you? In fact, I find both versions disgusting. Do you? |
he is talking about life. life is something God intends to happens. and that life wouldnt get to happen if its aborted. its pretty clear what his argument is.
Mr Khan said:
Because politics is necessarily material, and it political motives are often material in desire. The church embraces these agendas for less-than-noble reasons by politicizing, like what the Catholics did in the runup to the 1500s that led (in part) to the Protestant Revolution. When mixed with politics, religion becomes subservient to politics, not the driving force behind political motives, but the moral authority to back another agenda. Religion has long abused their moral authority to hold back progress in democratic countries. Hell, the Catholic Church is most of the reason that France killed their own democratic transition in 1848, because the suffrage-granted peasants were told "vote for the monarchists" by their priests, and they did. Or in America in the run-up to the Civil War, the Abolitionists were largely religious, but Southern faith-leaders also used Christianity to justify slavery. One of them was betraying their faith (and that's looking at it objectively. One religion can't hold both of these views simultaneously, removing the morality of slavery from the equation entirely). |
THat premise only holds up if only religion has ever embraced agendas for less then noble reasons.
Which... just isn't the case.
Outside which... Religion has also often helped democratic progress... and if religion can hold back things in a democracy... well it should.
If people care about their relgion, and their religion says something shouldn't happen... people have the right to know their religion wouldn't like such a thing.
Trying to infringe on religions freedom of speech is extremely heinous.
Kasz216 said:
THat premise only holds up if only religion has ever embraced agendas for less then noble reasons. Which... just isn't the case. Outside which... Religion has also often helped democratic progress... and if religion can hold back things in a democracy... well it should. If people care about their relgion, and their religion says something shouldn't happen... people have the right to know their religion wouldn't like such a thing. Trying to infringe on religions freedom of speech is extremely heinous. |
I didn't say "shouldn't be allowed to," i said, "shouldn't." I'm not trying to repress freedom of speech, i'm trying to say that religious figures should avoid becoming invested in particular earthly political causes, for while it can have good benefits sometimes (like the southern churches that helped push Civil Rights in the '60s), ultimately it's distracting from the mission, because as the political class grows aware of religion's usefulness, they will work to twist it to their own ends (sometimes being objectively good ends, yes, but it works dangerously on the matter of faith)
Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
Kasz216 said:
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The strongest language the Romney campaign has used is that they "disagree" with Mourdock, but "still support him". They haven't withdrawn their endorsement of Mourdock, or asked him to pull his campaign ad featuring Romney. Paul Ryan hasn't commented at all, which isn't particularly surprising since he opposes a woman's right to choose an abortion, even in cases of rape and incest.
As for what's the bigger headline, here are the top three headlines from Google News' Election section: "Mourdock Rape Comment Puts GOP on Defense", "Will Richard Mourdock's Rape Remarks Hurt Mitt Romney?", and "Will Richard Mourdock's Comments on God and Rape Sink the GOP?" There isn't a single headline on the front page about Romney disagreeing with Mourdock.
Bottom line: Is it too much to ask Romney to withraw his endorsement of Mourdock?
killerzX said:
he is talking about life. life is something God intends to happens. and that life wouldnt get to happen if its aborted. its pretty clear what his argument is. |
So you think he's arguing that when some rapes happen, God intends the woman to become pregnant from it. That it's part of God's plan. And you agree with that position? I certainly don't.
so according to this, means that god likes to rape and murder because its happening every day over the world = something bad happens its because god want it to happen.
so our god is khorne or slaanesh maybe?!?!?!?!
bluesinG said:
The strongest language the Romney campaign has used is that they "disagree" with Mourdock, but "still support him". They haven't withdrawn their endorsement of Mourdock, or asked him to pull his campaign ad featuring Romney. Paul Ryan hasn't commented at all, which isn't particularly surprising since he opposes a woman's right to choose an abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. As for what's the bigger headline, here are the top three headlines from Google News' Election section: "Mourdock Rape Comment Puts GOP on Defense", "Will Richard Mourdock's Rape Remarks Hurt Mitt Romney?", and "Will Richard Mourdock's Comments on God and Rape Sink the GOP?" There isn't a single headline on the front page about Romney disagreeing with Mourdock. Bottom line: Is it too much to ask Romney to withraw his endorsement of Mourdock? |
Bottom line: Well yes.
I mean, how many people vote and support for Barack Obama despite the fact that he signed a bill that allows americans to be detained indefinitly without trial, orders drone strikes on people with very loose guidelines on what consistutites a terrorist and leads to hundreds of children being killed.
Saying one stupid thing about rape is pretty light in comparison to what other people are willing to overlook for picking "The lesser of two evils".
Mr Khan said:
I didn't say "shouldn't be allowed to," i said, "shouldn't." I'm not trying to repress freedom of speech, i'm trying to say that religious figures should avoid becoming invested in particular earthly political causes, for while it can have good benefits sometimes (like the southern churches that helped push Civil Rights in the '60s), ultimately it's distracting from the mission, because as the political class grows aware of religion's usefulness, they will work to twist it to their own ends (sometimes being objectively good ends, yes, but it works dangerously on the matter of faith) |
It's hard to argue they shouldn't be involved in certain political causes when they view those political causes are vitally important to their spirtual causes.