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Forums - General Discussion - Is the worship of God really necessary?

Ajescent said:
I've always found it weird that an all powerful being would create 7 billion people just so they can all band together to say how awesome s/he is. And if for whatever reason you don't do it, you will be punished FOR EVER! That is just bizarre

Not only that, we also get to fight it out with regards to which "version" of him/her is more accurate.

Not to mention, the Christian version suggests he already had Angels whose job it was to do that anyway, clearly that wasn't enough so s/he had to go that extra mile.

Of course it can be weird, if it isn't correct.   

And what you wrote on at the end, would definitely lend to there probably being more than just getting a proper message out.  As you said, there is said to be Angels who can deliver message.  And heck, if it is belief, they could just show their wings and amaze the people and get them to believe certain information to be true.



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Let me change the question to  "Is believing in God necessary?" Alot of people believe in god and it helps when some people die or if something bad happened etc... So even if god does not exist "he" still sort of helps people and thats what counts.

There is 1 big problem I see and it is that even tho religious people usually dont care  much about atheists Atheists constantly "annoy" religious people with  "your god is fake why do you waste your time  the vault is a myth you'll get yourself killed" blah blah.

Why don't atheists mind their own business? ;) I mean do they have any dissadvantage because other people believe in god? I dont think so


Btw I changed the question because "worshipping" is not necessary its a misinterpretation of what the Bible suggest what should be done.
 You are not supposed to pray every day and kill sheep or whatever. Imho it just means you should respect "god" for what he is and what he created etc... But this is just my interpretation.

 I am a catholic I believe in god at least in some way but IMHO super religions people are silly and embarassing ;) The general Idea is okay but I doubt that everything thats written inside the bible is correct or is ment the way people today interpret it.

I mean the bible was written thousands of years ago by people that even used fairy tales and legends to fill the empty pages of the bible.  2000+ years ago people were quite stupid and the chance of misinterpreting what happend back than was alot higher than today.

SO
What if god exists? But god was a archaic name for "thing from the stars" or  something.
What if god is an alien and not some kind of old brown haired person with beard and white clothes which was the image Leonardo Davinci and other arists created?
 Todays image of god etc was altered by thousands of people and milenia of misinterpretation etc. I mean just look at what Coca Cola did to Santa Claus  within a few decades and this at a time with free education etc.

Almost no child today knows that santa "actually" looked more like this:


And not like this:


Seriously a old white man that lives at the north pole has a ton of elves magically creating presents for all children on our world and then he is flying around the world in his sleigh and is able to deliver all presents in time? LOL



JazzB1987 said:

Alot of people believe in god and it helps when some people die or if something bad happened etc... So even if god does not exist "he" still sort of helps people and thats what counts.

That's true. I completely agree.

There is 1 big problem I see and it is that even tho religious people usually dont care  much about atheists Atheists constantly "annoy" religious people with  "your god is fake why do you waste your time  the vault is a myth you'll get yourself killed" blah blah.

Yeah, that has really become a thing on the internet. Poor insecure bastards.

Why don't atheists mind their own business? ;) I mean do they have any dissadvantage because other people believe in god? I dont think so

To different degrees, yes and no. If people try to shove their faith down their throats they have a disadvantage. If people use their faith to excuse disturbing behavior (like we have seen here in Sweden where some Muslim kids refuse to eat pork and demand alternative meat/meal, or when they demand to have a doctor of the same sex as themselves despite a temporary shortage), then they also have a disadvantage. Though that goes for everyone and not solely atheists.

But yeah, the problem in those cases is not religion, but the believers. And there are indeed times where atheists should mind their own business instead of bothering believers just for the hell of it. Hopefully, this thread did not come across as insulting towards believers. That was not my intentions.

Btw I changed the question because "worshipping" is not necessary its a misinterpretation of what the Bible suggest what should be done.
 You are not supposed to pray every day and kill sheep or whatever. Imho it just means you should respect "god" for what he is and what he created etc... But this is just my interpretation.

 I am a catholic I believe in god at least in some way but IMHO super religions people are silly and embarassing ;) The general Idea is okay but I doubt that everything thats written inside the bible is correct or is ment the way people today interpret it.

I mean the bible was written thousands of years ago by people that even used fairy tales and legends to fill the empty pages of the bible.  2000+ years ago people were quite stupid and the chance of misinterpreting what happend back than was alot higher than today.

Well, I'm glad that you are open minded about these things :) Blind faith is never a good thing.





richardhutnik said:
Roma said:

anything altered by humans is automatically corrupted because its no longer Gods true words also you will find many contradictions in the Bible but not in the Koran. i see no point in reading the new testament as it is altered! if you want to see the resemblance between Islam and Christianity you should read the old testament.

if you can read the Koran in Arabic then you would see that the oldest copy you can find and the newest copy are 100% the same! now you tell me is that not the power of God? anything human made can easily be changed but the difference between the Koran and the Bible is that God said that the words in Koran will not change and if it does people will know about it. its no longer the Koran if a single letter is changed!

we Muslims pray 5 times a day and in the prayer we recite words from the Koran and a lot of people know the Koran to heart so if you burn all the Korans in the world and then gather 5 Muslims for instance from around the world they would recreate the book in a matter of hours! can that be done with the Bible? no of course not because everybody knows a different version of it!

now I respect people for what they believe in but you should know that what you believe in is true or not and once there is alterations in something then those words are no longer Gods words.

Jesus (pbuh) is the Messiah and he will return as he never died. the anti Christ will come before he does. its actually pretty cool! 

Pardon me for deleting the video.  It is in your post and can be seen there.  I deleted it to save space.

Let's take a minute at what the most basic of information regarding Jesus is believed by Christians, and then look at what Islam says about it.  It fundamentally says things about Jesus that about everyone who claims to be  Christian, or a follower of Jesus says.  Islam denies Jesus is the Son of God, when that title is all throughout the New Testament texts, and has been shown over and over again.  It is even in the writings of gnostics.  But Islam denies this.  Same goes with Jesus dying on the cross.  Islam denies this. Anyone who is even remotely believing they follow Jesus hold these to be true.  Islam denies this.  

I will leave the point about "multiple texts" alone, because it really isn't relevant to anything here, or the discussion of the Christian religion, if you want to go there.

I will focus on Jesus as Messiah.  Post here what that title means.  Can you do it?  Does it mean savior?  If it doesn't, what does it mean?  Again, what does Jesus as Messiah mean?

Islam is a bit like you took the Christian religion, and then ran a buzzsaw through it and morphed it into something else that doesn't even resemble Christianity.  It says things of who Jesus is, and Mary (yes, it speaks of a virgin birth and calls Jesus Messiah) but it doesn't explain its relevance, and just claims "corrupted texts".  Again, I put this challenge through you.  Show me what an approved version of the New Testament texts are by Islamic standards.  Then look at how much is left, and ask yourself if this is merely corrupted texts or totally false texts.  I would then have to ask what "Book" do you consider Christians part of.  

There are multiple people who penned Christian texts, and they show ample examples of what is called for by God.

yes Islam denies Jesus (pbuh) being Gods son because in the Koran God says he does not give birth nor was he born. Yusuf Estes a former christian priest will explain this better than I will ever be able to. plz take the time to watch it




    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

richardhutnik said:
Roma said:

lol at people saying Christians have a different god than Muslims because we believe that Jesus (pbuh) is not gods son! in Islam we have to respect all prophets of God and all religions to be Muslims. If you do not accept one prophet then you are not Muslim!

I love Jesus (pbuh) and respect him but he is not Gods sun as God was not born and does not give birth! If Jesus (pbuh) was a demigod then Adam is a real God since God created him with no mother nor a father!

I don't make fun of prophets and god and I don't draw pictures of them either since I am not allowed to do so!

if you read the old testament (the unchanged bible) you will find that in it Jesus (pbuh) talks about the last prophet that will come and seal Gods religion as in the completion of his religion!

The incarnation (Jesus as God/Son of God) and also the death, burial and resurrection of Christ are essential to Christianity.  Islam denies this, and also while Jesus is said to be Messiah, I have yet to see a consistent understanding on the part of Muslims as to what this means.  In Christianity, it is all about salvation, being delivered from sin and so on.  Islam is all about submission.   You can correct me on this, but Islam says the only problem is that we didn't have a pure form of God's Law, and people choose  to not submit enough.  There is nothing in Islam that speaks of people being slaves to Sin.  Also, God is something entirely other and has little to do with humans being humans.  Christians say that man is made in God's images.  In Islam, God transcends everything.  There is talk of love, MAYBE, in Islam, but it really doesn't fit what is in the Christian religion either.

While Muslims can respect Christians, and act nice as you have,there really isn't much in common between Islam and Christianity at all.

I wil say this by asking you personally to go through the New Testament texts and either only copy down the verses that agree with Islam or list the ones that disagree.  And then see how much is left.  Islam claims the New Testament texts are corrupted, thus the Qu'ran is needed.

Islam does have a beautiful and logical simplicity to it.  Just, it ends up destroying what makes Christianity Christianity in its beautiful and logical simplicity.


Rawr! Fear me! I am a muslim and I am simply too evil for my beliefs! I am a destroyer...

I am offensive and I find this muslim.

 

No, but seriously, you got your facts a little wrong there. Muslims believe in Jesus, we just don't believe he was the son of  God  nor that he was crucified. Don't get me wrong. Someone was crucified, it Just wasn't Jesus peace be upon him.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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hatmoza said:

 

I am offensive and I find this muslim.


LOL, was this intentional?



Jay520 said:
hatmoza said:

 

I am offensive and I find this muslim.


LOL, was this intentional?


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-am-offensive-and-i-find-this-x



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

hatmoza said:
richardhutnik said:

Islam does have a beautiful and logical simplicity to it.  Just, it ends up destroying what makes Christianity Christianity in its beautiful and logical simplicity.


Rawr! Fear me! I am a muslim and I am simply too evil for my beliefs! I am a destroyer...

I am offensive and I find this muslim.

 

No, but seriously, you got your facts a little wrong there. Muslims believe in Jesus, we just don't believe he was the son of  God  nor that he was crucified. Don't get me wrong. Someone was crucified, it Just wasn't Jesus peace be upon him.

Muslims don't believe in Jesus, at least not the way Christians do.  Muslims believe about Jesus that he was a prophet, but where among Muslim is any of the teachings of Jesus read taught or followed?  When does a Muslim ever call Jesus "Lord"?  Everything remotely connected with Jesus being Jesus as messiah is stripped from Christianity.  You believe facts about Jesus, but you don't trust in Jesus.  A Muslim can be a good standing Muslim and know nothing about Jesus.  Can a Christian be a good Christian and that be true?  No...

The reality is the five pillars, which are a beautiful foundation of Islam, end up destroying Christianity and everything relevant about it.  Christianity is about Christ, and fully about Christ.  Islam is about submission to God.



richardhutnik said:
hatmoza said:
richardhutnik said:

Islam does have a beautiful and logical simplicity to it.  Just, it ends up destroying what makes Christianity Christianity in its beautiful and logical simplicity.


Rawr! Fear me! I am a muslim and I am simply too evil for my beliefs! I am a destroyer...

I am offensive and I find this muslim.

 

No, but seriously, you got your facts a little wrong there. Muslims believe in Jesus, we just don't believe he was the son of  God  nor that he was crucified. Don't get me wrong. Someone was crucified, it Just wasn't Jesus peace be upon him.

Muslims don't believe in Jesus, at least not the way Christians do.  Muslims believe about Jesus that he was a prophet, but where among Muslim is any of the teachings of Jesus read taught or followed?  When does a Muslim ever call Jesus "Lord"?  Everything remotely connected with Jesus being Jesus as messiah is stripped from Christianity.  You believe facts about Jesus, but you don't trust in Jesus.  A Muslim can be a good standing Muslim and know nothing about Jesus.  Can a Christian be a good Christian and that be true?  No...

The reality is the five pillars, which are a beautiful foundation of Islam, end up destroying Christianity and everything relevant about it.  Christianity is about Christ, and fully about Christ.  Islam is about submission to God.

Muslims believe in Jesus. Don't sugar coat it to fit your angle. Stop making false statements. That's twice you stated something false as true. I'm not here to fall for your baiting, I just corrected you. Don't mistake me for someone eager to flag his religious beliefs around like a mad man.

How did this go from believing Jesus to trusting him? Of course he's trusted, maybe not in the exact same way as Christians, but we do.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

Roma said:
richardhutnik said:
Roma said:

anything altered by humans is automatically corrupted because its no longer Gods true words also you will find many contradictions in the Bible but not in the Koran. i see no point in reading the new testament as it is altered! if you want to see the resemblance between Islam and Christianity you should read the old testament.

if you can read the Koran in Arabic then you would see that the oldest copy you can find and the newest copy are 100% the same! now you tell me is that not the power of God? anything human made can easily be changed but the difference between the Koran and the Bible is that God said that the words in Koran will not change and if it does people will know about it. its no longer the Koran if a single letter is changed!

we Muslims pray 5 times a day and in the prayer we recite words from the Koran and a lot of people know the Koran to heart so if you burn all the Korans in the world and then gather 5 Muslims for instance from around the world they would recreate the book in a matter of hours! can that be done with the Bible? no of course not because everybody knows a different version of it!

now I respect people for what they believe in but you should know that what you believe in is true or not and once there is alterations in something then those words are no longer Gods words.

Jesus (pbuh) is the Messiah and he will return as he never died. the anti Christ will come before he does. its actually pretty cool! 

Pardon me for deleting the video.  It is in your post and can be seen there.  I deleted it to save space.

Let's take a minute at what the most basic of information regarding Jesus is believed by Christians, and then look at what Islam says about it.  It fundamentally says things about Jesus that about everyone who claims to be  Christian, or a follower of Jesus says.  Islam denies Jesus is the Son of God, when that title is all throughout the New Testament texts, and has been shown over and over again.  It is even in the writings of gnostics.  But Islam denies this.  Same goes with Jesus dying on the cross.  Islam denies this. Anyone who is even remotely believing they follow Jesus hold these to be true.  Islam denies this.  

I will leave the point about "multiple texts" alone, because it really isn't relevant to anything here, or the discussion of the Christian religion, if you want to go there.

I will focus on Jesus as Messiah.  Post here what that title means.  Can you do it?  Does it mean savior?  If it doesn't, what does it mean?  Again, what does Jesus as Messiah mean?

Islam is a bit like you took the Christian religion, and then ran a buzzsaw through it and morphed it into something else that doesn't even resemble Christianity.  It says things of who Jesus is, and Mary (yes, it speaks of a virgin birth and calls Jesus Messiah) but it doesn't explain its relevance, and just claims "corrupted texts".  Again, I put this challenge through you.  Show me what an approved version of the New Testament texts are by Islamic standards.  Then look at how much is left, and ask yourself if this is merely corrupted texts or totally false texts.  I would then have to ask what "Book" do you consider Christians part of.  

There are multiple people who penned Christian texts, and they show ample examples of what is called for by God.

yes Islam denies Jesus (pbuh) being Gods son because in the Koran God says he does not give birth nor was he born. Yusuf Estes a former christian priest will explain this better than I will ever be able to. plz take the time to watch it

By the way, here is a page linked with Yusuf that shows the differences:

http://www.911bible.com/christianity_vs_islam.php