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Forums - Gaming - Sony fighting to stay relevant?

S.T.A.G.E. on 28 September 2012
oni-link said:
Kenology said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Kenology said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The Wii was insanely profitable. The Cube was not and the original Xbox never sold over 25 million consoles. The original Xbox had investors worrying whether there should be a second version of the console. You should've seen the internet for Nintendo though, they were talking about how Nintendo should just make games like Sega and call it a day back then. Everyone was talking about doom and gloom back then because Nintendo was now going head to head with huge corporations.

I don't think that's true.  The Cube didn't sell a ton of units but Nintendo sold a TON of software on that system.  The Gamecube was most certainly profitable.  I don't have the numbers to show, but I'm sure someone does...  Everyone who was talking about gloom and doom for Nintendo then were looking at the weekly Media Create/monthly NPD reports, they couldn't have been looking at Nintendo's financial statements becaue Nintendo was making a SHIT TON of money off the Gamecube.

Im talking about the reception or dare I say public perception on the interwebs, my friend...not the reality. I know Nintendo profitted off the Gamecube. people were responding to the 60/20/20 marketshare stranglehold Sony had. I didnt believe it then and I dont believe it in Sonys case as well. 

Ok. But this sentence makes it should like you're saying the complete opposite: "The Wii was insanely profitable. The Cube was not..."



Ouch...somebody got caught with their pants down (just like those ppl saying the Wii U is less powerful than PS360)    Honestly, just looking at Nintendo financials shows the GCN was profitable.  It sold a ton of games (thanks to it's loyal fanbase) plus the hardware was sold for a profit.


I never said Nintendo didnt profit. I wasnt on this site back in the Cube days I joined in 2008. I was on Gamespot and IGN when I was much younger and people were talking about Nintendo being in trouble all the time. I was just stating that this situation reminded me of that. Wow you guys really create something out of a statement that I stated was not the reality of the situation but really just the ideal of fanboys. That was back in a time when Nintendo was ridiculed for being in third place on the net and Microsoft fanatics were boasting about graphics and Sony fanboys bragged about having all the games under the sun.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 28 September 2012
JayWood2010 said:

@ S.T.A.G.E.  Do I really need to bring out a list of each console exclusive between the two.....bro.  Sony had nothing in it's first couple years and Microsoft hasnt in its last few years. Most likely they will come out pretty even, but as I said before X360 software sells way more.  You can argue all you want but at the end of the day what I said is true.  


last few years? If you talk about Microsofts gaming drought it would from start to finish it will be six years by the end of its life cycle which will be 2015. The first three years were great, fourth was adequete. The rest was Kinect (2010 launch), Halo, Gears. Sony has been on fire since 2009 and still have a stacked list of games clear set to come between now and 2014. Clearlyin 2008 Metal Gear Solid 4 was the banner leader that created the buzz about the exclusives that lead to Sony first party eventually showing its face. Marcus Beer on Invisible Walls has said the PS3 can last until 2014-2015 based purely on internal development at Sony, but Microsoft needs the new Xbox now. I completely agree and they masterfully placed the Halo/Gears development cycle to hide this fact. Sony has already beaten out Microsoft in new IP's created, the next few years will just be nails in the coffin in that respect. Gamespot has already wrote an article about it as well showing the scale of game creation featuring new IP's.



deskpro2k3 on 28 September 2012

Sony pictures also made money. spider man this year, and the superman reboot next year will show some profit.



VicViper on 28 September 2012
deskpro2k3 said:
Sony pictures also made money. spider man this year, and the superman reboot next year will show some profit.


Superman, like all DC characters, are property of Warner Bros. I don't think they have anything in commom with Sony Pictures.

Maybe Robocop will do them money next year



Train wreck on 28 September 2012
VicViper said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Sony pictures also made money. spider man this year, and the superman reboot next year will show some profit.


Superman, like all DC characters, are property of Warner Bros. I don't think they have anything in commom with Sony Pictures.

Maybe Robocop will do them money next year

oops



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sales2099 on 28 September 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JayWood2010 said:

 

@Sales2099

@Jay520

@Leo-J

 

First off Sales2099 is the only one looking at this from a business persepective.  Leo is taking this from a bias perspective, and  Jay you just, idk.   Everything Sales2099 has said that I've read is correct.  Yes Madden is huge btw why do you guys think they sale it every year.  Can you imagine how much profits they are getting out of a game that barely has to update each year?   

 

Halo/Gears/Forza is way bigger than Sony's first party.  I don't even know why this is being argued.  If you're going to argue let's look at the numbers. These are how much each franchise has sold this gen

 

Halo-28.99m and with Halo 4 that's going to increase

Gears of War-18.04m

Forza-11.45m

Total-58.48

 

Uncharted-14.57m

Gran Turismo-7.87m

God of War-7.53m

Total-29.97

 

Halo alone almost matches the totals for all three of Sony's exclusives.  With halo 4 it will pass all three. 

 

And Leo, so you said PSN is the best online service?  XBL has much more  respect for multiple reasons but I know what you're going to say.  FREE, am I correct.  Sorry but Steam is 10x better than PSN and it's also free.  

 

If you all really think it's ok for a company to go from making an insane amount of profits with the PS2 to losing billions with the ps3 you have a problem.  Graphics is not even noticeable between X360 and PS3, play pc if you wanna a difference.  600 dollars was a huge mistake just like the Vita is making a huge mistake with making memory cards over priced and an expensive portable console.  Get rid of your bias opinions, Sales2099 is the only one correct here so I don't understand the argument here.  Please explain.

 

 


Thats great bro. Microsoft might have three titles that are strong, but those sales are supplemented by the fact that Sony has way more games for potential sales.

Which mostly fall below the radar.....



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 28 September 2012
Jay520 said:
sales2099 said:

1.) Like I said, franchise A would generate more money and total sales then franchise B....hence its technically bigger.

2.) Fanbase numbers are only as good as the frequency of the franchise. Frequency also means that your current in the minds of the gamer. .

3.) One game every 7 years, no matter how popular that one release was, will be forgotten as years and the next big games come out. You need to be current, you need to be on the back of gamers minds almost every year. That is why I think frequency matters.

4.) But to drive this home.....Uncharted (A) has moved more consoles in all 3 games then GT5 (B) has done alone. "Franchise" sales, Frequency, Being current. Thats what matters (to me at least).


1.) What do you mean "technically bigger"? Where do you get that definition? The generally accepted definition of bigger is more common or more popular. People equate "bigger" with "bigger fanbase". That's the default definition of bigger. You're in the minority. If you go ask a bunch of people (even people on this site) what's bigger between Madden and Grand Theft Auto, the majority would say Grand Theft Auto. .

2.) Madden may be in the minds of gamers. But that doesn't mean its bigger. Its fanbase is still extremely smaller than GTA's fanbase. And besides, GTA is still in the minds of gamers. It's still on of the most played games and GTA5 will surely be huge. This doesn't support your point .

3.) GTA5 won't be releasing until 2013. That would be 5 years after GTA4 released. Is GTA is being forgotten? No, if it were, it still wouldn't be one of the most played online games on the HD consoles. And GTA5 wouldn't sell the insane amounts that we both know it will sell. This doesn't support your point.

4.) You don't know that. Considering Uncharted's fanbase is around 6m and GT's fanbase is nearing 8m, I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Most would assume that GT' has pushed more console due to its larger fanbase.

Im sorry if I have a business outlook instead of a complete gamers one. I think it makes perfect sense that the franchise that generates more total sales and makes more money from said sales is the bigger franchise. Madden gamers dont exactly flood the forums so offcourse GTA would win that popularity contest. Fanbase numbers mean nothing if the game releases are extremely spaced out. Madden sells more total, keeping the same gamers spending $60 every year for minimum upgrades, and you have the balls to tell me it isnt bigger. Another reason why total franchise sales matter.

Either way, you sidetracked because Uncharted vs GT was the origional, and relevant example.,..how Uncharted is bigger then GT because it sells more total as a franchise and generated more money. I do not know how many each franchise moved consoles, but I can make an educated guess no? Sony has made bundles of all 3 Uncharted games and that in itself makes it a system seller. GT5 bundles were few and limited. So I dont know, but then again I do with some deductive reasoning. Absence of real facts is no excuse for blissful ignorance on your part.

But overall, a smaller fanbase can contribute more to a franchise then the other. All depends on frequency. Uncharted has less fanbase, but that fanbase keeps contributing their money with every installment. GT fanbase only had one real opportunity to contribute this gen. Regardless of devotion and numbers, it is frequency that determines how big a franchise is. But you seem to think that almost every buyer of GT5 didnt previously have a PS3. System sellers are very lucky to move a million consoles, tops. Without bundles offcourse.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Jaywood2010 on 28 September 2012

I said Leo-J was being bias, not you.  I am just saying that from a business perspective Sales2099 is correct on everything he said.  However madden is not bigger than GTA or games like that.  However Madden is not bigger than GTA, not really sure why that was said by him. Of course there is many ways at looking at this but we can't argue that Sony's exclusives do not sell as well as Microsoft and the same goes to third party which is what this discussion is about correct?  What I get out of all this is Sony lost billions and now that they are making a little money with the PS3 it still does not make up for the billions they lost with it in the beginning.  Then someone said Halo and everybody went crazy, but it's true.  Sony does not have a Halo franchise in terms of sells.  They have uncharted which is great but it doesnt sell near as well as Halo.  Nintendo has Mario, Microsoft has Halo, and Sony is still searching for a mascot.  Who kows what will happen next generation but Nintendo and Microsoft already has a system seller, where is Sony's?  Sony can't afford making the same mistakes over and over again.




       

Lafiel on 28 September 2012
JayWood2010 said:

 

@Sales2099

@Jay520

@Leo-J

 

First off Sales2099 is the only one looking at this from a business persepective.  Leo is taking this from a bias perspective, and  Jay you just, idk.  Everything Sales2099 has said that I've read is correct.  

The argument Jay is presenting is, that there are more people willing to buy into a console for GTA then for Madden, although technically Madden sells more (in this example - I haven't double checked whether that's actually the case), because GTA has more unique users, while Madden's sales are primarily from people buying each year or each second year.

Yes Madden is huge btw why do you guys think they sale it every year.  Can you imagine how much profits they are getting out of a game that barely has to update each year?   

Well, don't forget they have to use a lot of that money to pay the license fee and they _have_ to release a game on almost every platform each year because that's their contract, meaning they have to have 200+ people working on it to make it in a year and to make it not be totally exactly like the years before.

Halo/Gears/Forza is way bigger than Sony's first party.  I don't even know why this is being argued.  If you're going to argue let's look at the numbers. These are how much each franchise has sold this gen

shouldn't you go with Halo/Kinect Adventures/Gears instead? I mean Kinect Adventures is a proven system mover and MSes 3rd biggest IP at this point

 

Halo-28.99m and with Halo 4 that's going to increase

Gears of War-18.04m

Kinect Adventures-16.89m

Forza-11.45m

Total-63.92m

 

Uncharted-14.57m

Gran Turismo-7.87m u omitted Gran Turismo Prologue,so it's 11.97m

God of War-7.53m

Total-34.07

 

Halo alone almost matches the totals for all three of Sony's exclusives.  With halo 4 it will pass all three. 

 

And Leo, so you said PSN is the best online service?  XBL has much more  respect for multiple reasons but I know what you're going to say.  FREE, am I correct.  Sorry but Steam is 10x better than PSN and it's also free.  

that can be summarised in one word: bias - Steam is good, probably better than PSN, but by no means 10x better

 

If you all really think it's ok for a company to go from making an insane amount of profits with the PS2 to losing billions with the ps3 you have a problem.  Graphics is not even noticeable between X360 and PS3, play pc if you wanna a difference.  600 dollars was a huge mistake just like the Vita is making a huge mistake with making memory cards over priced and an expensive portable console.  

I mostly agree

Get rid of your bias opinions, Sales2099 is the only one correct here so I don't understand the argument here.  Please explain.

you are telling other people to "get rid of their bias" while slapping them into the face with your own ? that won't work

answered



deskpro2k3 on 28 September 2012
VicViper said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Sony pictures also made money. spider man this year, and the superman reboot next year will show some profit.


Superman, like all DC characters, are property of Warner Bros. I don't think they have anything in commom with Sony Pictures.

Maybe Robocop will do them money next year

I don't know why I typed superman, your guess is as good as mine. what I meant to type was; "Spider-Man" reboot in the third quarter benefits from this year and it should next year around the world, same for Men in Black 3, including their television production like wheel of fortune. etc - all part of sony pictures. - edit even if the profit not that fantastic, it is a plus lol