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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 46 - Realm of Darkness

happydolphin on 20 September 2012

EBWOP. OP states:

---------------
The game contains 3 types of characters:
Human
Shadowspawn
Godlike

----------
No mention of spawn unless you want to grasp straws, no mention of Hero (except higher up in OP).

The only possibility is that the term shadowlings was used purposefully by Stefl to hijack flavor analysis, which is why I didn't want to do it in the first place. But then that would mean that Smeags used it coincidentally in his larping, or he's actually shadowspawn and lied about his name, and tried to confuse us by calling us shadowlings. And then add the probability that I copied his larping and used the term in the same way, and that created a clusterfuck.

Ahh, I'm mad at myself now. But I still have a very hard time believing this. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but it seemed an aweful lot like backpedaling.



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radishhead on 20 September 2012

I'm not against the theory that both of you are mafia, trying to show us that you're not aligned the same way by having a colossal argument.



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theprof00 on 20 September 2012
happydolphin said:
theprof00 said:

Smeags using the word before you was me illustrating to you my original post of "I think you are copying smeags". It has nothing to do with the logic. The logic is that I am a shadowling with no name, and saw you (someone who called himself a shadowling) with a name and said 'logically' these two thigns contradict. one shadowling with a name, and one without a name. Seeing that contradiction, I asked you if you made up your name (under the assumption that you truthfully, and not mistakenly, claimed yourself as a shadowling).

In the end, it turns out you are not a shadowling. Which, if we go back to the logic that shadowling without a name and one with a name cannot exist, the logic returns TRUE. The contradiction is erased, since, you only mistakenly called yourself a shadowling. A human or something else, on the other hand, is reasonably named, and I have no problem with that, because I don't have information saying otherwise. What I do have for evidence is that shadowlings don't have names, which proved logical when you turned out to not be a shadowling.

 

Furthermore, you have a glaring problem in your post. Corrupted human is not listed as a species either, and according to your own logic that "(replacing shadowling with X)  X have no bearing in flavor, because they don't exist in the flavor."

Yes, you're right at that last part of my logic. I rectified it in my reply to Trucks which made more sense.

As you can understand, your shadowling story is very hard to believe, especially given how Smeags had used the term prior to denote town and there is no mention of it in any way shape or form in OP.

So my logic is telling me that you fabricated all of this to frame town, but part of me is saying it's possible.

So, what would be a shadowling and what would be a shadowspawn, and why the new name? Corrupted human has a reason for existence, the former does not.

Why is it hard to believe? Smeags using the word is what caught my attention. From MY point of view, I am a shadowling, and I am town. Shadowling is not listed in the OP. Therefore, only people who are also shadowlings should know about shadowlings. It's easy for a scum who is a hero to say 'hey guys I'm a shadowspawn', because he's given the information that spawn exist right there in the flavor. It's impossible for them to say, 'i am a shadowling' because they are logically not shadowlings, but heroes, so, a mafia could not use the term 'shadowling' as they don't know of its existence.

Smeags is not what prompted me to use the word, he is what prompted me to notice that other people might be shadowlings. Secondly, I was the one who accused YOU of copying smeags lol, and you just turn it around and say 'oh it's hard to believe, i think you just copied smeags'. lol

If you would simply explain your logic, which I've asked you for for the hundreth time (not to mention just recently pointing out a flaw to which you've already admitted) I could show you where you are wrong.

The problem is that you are assuming that shadowling is not shadowspawn. Corrupted human is likely also a shadowspawn. I think you're taking the word shadowspawn too strictly to only refer to shadowspawn, when you have evidence yourself that other things exist beside hero, shadowspawn, god (corrupted human), or that thigns like corrupted human and shadowling may simply fit inside one of those types of characters.



theprof00 on 20 September 2012
radishhead said:
I'm not against the theory that both of you are mafia, trying to show us that you're not aligned the same way by having a colossal argument.

I think you're just throwing shit at a wall.



happydolphin on 20 September 2012
theprof00 said:

Why is it hard to believe? Smeags using the word is what caught my attention. From MY point of view, I am a shadowling, and I am town. Shadowling is not listed in the OP. Therefore, only people who are also shadowlings should know about shadowlings. It's easy for a scum who is a hero to say 'hey guys I'm a shadowspawn', because he's given the information that spawn exist right there in the flavor. It's impossible for them to say, 'i am a shadowling' because they are logically not shadowlings, but heroes, so, a mafia could not use the term 'shadowling' as they don't know of its existence.

Smeags is not what prompted me to use the word, he is what prompted me to notice that other people might be shadowlings. Secondly, I was the one who accused YOU of copying smeags lol, and you just turn it around and say 'oh it's hard to believe, i think you just copied smeags'. lol

If you would simply explain your logic, which I've asked you for for the hundreth time (not to mention just recently pointing out a flaw to which you've already admitted) I could show you where you are wrong.

The problem is that you are assuming that shadowling is not shadowspawn. Corrupted human is likely also a shadowspawn. I think you're taking the word shadowspawn too strictly to only refer to shadowspawn, when you have evidence yourself that other things exist beside hero, shadowspawn, god (corrupted human), or that thigns like corrupted human and shadowling may simply fit inside one of those types of characters.

Okay, I'm finally starting to understand. I feel bad now, in a good way, but I'm mostly glad I get it because I wasn't getting a scum vibe from you in the first place.

I remove my suspicion of you and Trucks. But this now puts more suspicion on Smeags and I, yet I claimed corrupted human first, which cancels out the suspicion on me (due to the DRM on the human side), so that leaves us with Smeags being shady.

Why did you go after me in the first place tho?



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happydolphin on 20 September 2012

EBWOP: To clarify, since Smeags used it to denote anyone in town, why didn't you react?



theprof00 on 20 September 2012
happydolphin said:
EBWOP. OP states:

---------------
The game contains 3 types of characters:
Human
Shadowspawn
Godlike

----------
No mention of spawn unless you want to grasp straws, no mention of Hero (except higher up in OP).

The only possibility is that the term shadowlings was used purposefully by Stefl to hijack flavor analysis, which is why I didn't want to do it in the first place. But then that would mean that Smeags used it coincidentally in his larping, or he's actually shadowspawn and lied about his name, and tried to confuse us by calling us shadowlings. And then add the probability that I copied his larping and used the term in the same way, and that created a clusterfuck.

Ahh, I'm mad at myself now. But I still have a very hard time believing this. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but it seemed an aweful lot like backpedaling.

I just said spawn because I'm tired of writing shadow and tried to abbreviate. Guess that was a big mistake.
Hero, yes, that was a confusion. It's human. But I mean, think about it. You are a corrupted human. You have a prefix to human. I have a suffix to shadow. We are the same, you and I. We're not listed in the OP, but it's safe to assume that we are parts of those groups. Just as I assumed I was a shadowspawn type, you assumed you were a human type. I don't understand why you can see that it makes sense for yourself, but not for me.

I promise you I did not backpedal a single bit, NOR was I flavor hunting. Flavor hunting would be if I said, you are human, and therefore are scum. No, I saw you say something very explicitly that caused me to question you. It would be the same if you were to claim a name that I had, for instance, if this were pokemon and you claimed to be squirtle when my name was squirtle. That's not flavorhunting, that's noticing a contradiction. None of my questioning of you had anything to do with flavor. It was flavor-related, but flavor wasn't the problem, it was that you were claiming (or so I thought when you distinctly called yourself a shadowling) to be something I was but a major difference.



happydolphin on 20 September 2012

@prof, trucks. I'm going to reread pages 3 and 4 on 100ppp, to see if this all falls into place. For now I'm very ok with the explanations and I'm sorry if I was being stubborn, but I'm in the dark you have to understand.



theprof00 on 20 September 2012
zero129 said:
TruckOSaurus said:
zero129 said:
TruckOSaurus said:

It's not. If Smeags is to be believed (and I currently do), he just happened to use a term that's part of the game setup by accident while roleplaying.

Ok, but then that would mean imo that anyone that confirmed that they are a shadowling are mafia.

We know Shadowspawn = Town, corrupt human = Town. So then since Normal Human = Mafia wouldnt that mean Shadowlings = Mafia's version of shadowspawn??.

I know for a fact that shadowling doesn't equal Mafia.

HoS: Trucks.

Anyone that confirms they are a shadowling imo is going to get one of them from me as the flavor points to nothing of the type!!.

So far we have corrupted humans, and shadowlings. No flavor points to corrupted human. So why are you only focused on shadowling?



DarkThanatos on 20 September 2012
mantlepiecek said:
DarkThanatos said:

Firstly, starting off saying you where human, then after coming under suspicion changing it to corrupted human. Your reasoning is that "you thought corrupted human was only you" - If you where town, and had no idea what any of the other classes were, why feel the need to keep it just to human? No-one else had a problem with coming out as corrupted human after, I just find that all a bit suspicious- even if it is an honest mistake. 

Secondly, the response of "I was just testing you" Is weak at best. Obviously I have not seen play before, so I dont know if this is a common playstyle, but from a first opinion I feel this is a weak response. 

Thirdly, you where not sure between light and dark being good or bad. Most of the towns are creatures of the darkness, so this just raises my suspicions that you are not who you say you are. You claim to be a corrupted human, yet as nen pointed out, you thought that corrupted human where light. As a corrupted human myself, who knows that I'm dark, thats a major incosistancy.

Forthly, your rebuttal of arguments like hat was simply "You are very stupid sometimes hat." Not what I would call a proper defence. Similarly your retaliations to Happy's arguments where also poor. "Nope you have no idea what piss poor is then" - rather then clarifying it. 

Fifthly, you complained that flavour and calling yourself human where not reasons alone for being scum. Yet you "hat I think is town purely based on his character claim." 

The throwing out accusations- You said "Carl was probably scum" - without any justification as to why. Similarly with me, I voted with incorrect format, and the next post you called me scum imo.

Other reasons are Hat, who claims to have a good reason to think you are scum. Which alone is not enough for me to believe him, but if we did lynch you, and you were town, then he would be the next to be lynched. I think that is too big a risk for him to take without due reason. Combined with Carl, who has kept quite and appears to be thinking a lot about this, being suspicious of you as well... its just a matter of lots of little things adding up. 

Finally, this opening round it is all taken off little evidence, and someone needs to get lynched or we all vote for no-lynch. You are the person that I have the most suspicion of, so thats why I vote you. Understand my point a little better? Feel free to try and clarify any accusations I have made again though, because if you are Town, then I dont want us not understanding your point to kill you off. 

What do you mean by what do i think about nen?

First of all, I asked, show me where I have inconsistent arguments. The examples you have shown are not inconsistent arguments.

Second I asked where have I been suspicious of people attacking me? I haven't been suspicious of hat, the leader himself, which you so nicely point out yourself. Apparently now I am scum because I am "blindly" considering hat as town.

Also carl, he is one of the weaker feeling as scum.

And I never tested people. Interesting that you parrot nen. Unfortunately you parroted something that is false.

And when I voted you, I felt you were scum. Now I have reasons to believe you are scum. However I won't lynch you today.

That much you can be assured.

I have also provided justifications for thinking these people are scum. Nen, carl. Also you yourself, you are parroting, for an example. You aren't actually answering questions.

And when I say what you think about nen, I mean, who do you feel about him? Scum feel, town feel, in between? Would be nice if you could elaborate.

1) I apologise then, incosistent arguments was not the phrase I meant. In hindsight Poor/inadequate responses would have been a better choice. I note that you did not refute many of the points I put out. 

2) I never said suspicious of people attacking you. Just that you where throwing accusations around. 

 throwing around accusations based on little to try and shake off suspicion, rather then giving consistent counter-arguments. 

You are also misquoting me. I never said you were scum for blindly considering some as town. I said that I was suspicious, because your reasoning for calling him town was the same type that you were refuting arguments against you. 

3) In regards to the testing statement. When looking back to answer this question I saw his argument and remembered it crossing my mind earlier. As to whether it was a true point or not, I will have to confirm in a second. Thankyou for raising questions about that, it may change my mind. I am also not parroting nen, I agreed with his argument for that point. If everyone was to have a different opinion, then no-one would ever get lynched. 

4) You claim that you won't lynch me today, yet I am still your vote am I not? - You have yet to give even a half-reason for your feel of carl being scum. If you have, I either missed them or didnt understand them. Please link/show me where you gave these reasons. 

5) I am not answering questions is different to parroting surely? And I was answering the questions you gave me. Where havent I and I will rectify that? 

6) Currently I am not sure about nen. He bounces between being slight scum feel, and slight town feel. My opinion at the moment is that most of his logic makes sense to me, but I am inbetween as to his orientation. 



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