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Forums - General - Apple invented errrythang

ultima said:

My allegiances? Whatever do you mean?

Android has a lot of features that iOS is lacking. I honestly can't think of a single thing iOS has that Android didn't since 2.3. Don't give me Siri and all that, because you could get voice software from the market. Siri is just a voice recognition software hooked up to Wolfram Alpha. And, honestly, that's not as big of a deal as people claim. Everyone I know who has a 4S played with Siri for a day, then never used it again. No exceptions. When I get Jellybean myself, I'll certainly play with the voice commander for a bit, then never touch it again. It just isn't useful. Plus, these speech analyzers suck. Siri has no idea what you're talking at least half of the time. Jellybean's (official Google search app) is apparently better at this, but it's still not perfect, and, like I said, even if it were perfect, nobody would use it, because it's not useful.

You're the master of misquotation it seems. I purposefully did not say "better". I said "more powerful", meaning Gingerbread can do everything iOS5 can, and then some. I understand that the two systems have adopted substantially different paradigms, but I have a problem with neither: I have never said that I was against closed or open ecosystems.

I'll give you the nod with the Android fragmentation issue. Although that can be easily fixed with custom ROMs. I understand some people don't want to do that though, and, thus, we have the problem. This problem, it must be noted, is the result of the open nature of Android. Google surrendered control to the manufacturers and carriers; Nexus devices themselves get the updates ridiculously quickly. But it's also not true that Apple has a perfect solution. I know people whose 3GS phones became incredibly slow and laggy once the iOS5 update rolled in.

I already admitted that Google took some inspiration from Apple. Even still, the original iPhone and Android's UIs were noticeably different. In fact, Android looked more like desktop operating system, with its homescreens and widgets. Is that a wrong practice? Hell no. Everyone does it, and everyone benefits. "Borrow and improve." Sounds good, doesn't it? Steve Jobs himself said that, "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

We agree on the bolded; and somewhat agree on the italicized. Apple was mad? They have a right to be; they don't have a right to force others to give them compensatory cookies for that though. Some Android users were mad when iOS took some ideas from their OS. Google itself, however, wasn't. Although I have no idea where you got that Google was a partner who received early prototypes from. Source?

It's an assumption that Google was involved in early iOS development. After all, the device launched with integrated Google services. It's unlikely that Apple did that all by their lonesome and almost surely turned to Google for help with its development.

In any case, this argument is going nowhere. You accuse me of being vague and then take offense when I "misquote" your statement that "if you look at the state of these two systems now, Android is miles ahead."

How is one supposed to take that comment? We can run around all day arguing semantics but I have other things to do. Enjoy your phone.




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rocketpig said:
ultima said:
I'm a Canadian, so there's no dialect barrier between us. I clearly know what that means. What I criticized was the ambiguity of the statement (or vagueness is perhaps a more fitting term). "They had an excellent notification system long before either Android or iOS developed anything worth a damn." There's no indication there that you meant that webOS had a good notification system long before either Android or iOS did; it actually sounds like you meant that webOS had a good notification system long before either Android or iOS developed ANYTHING worthwile. Which is clearly false, seeing as both predated webOS. Moreover, the statement that you apparently meant is also not true, because Android has had pretty much the same notification system since 2008. You're right that they added the swipe gesture and more info; but those are small improvements, not major redesigns to bring it up to speed with webOS.

And I'd argue that I still think the Android notification system is still slightly subpar, particularly on phones (their tablet implementation in Honeycomb was quite good, I think). WebOS was on the right track with their notifications and I think iOSes' notifications are better than Android (speaking as someone who owns an iPad, an iPod, a Gingerbread phone, and spent the weekend setting up an ICS phone, which I recommended to my father). Virtually no useful information past "this thing exists" is in the phone notification window. I think Apple's system of displaying relevant information at the top of the screen (and quickly rolling it off the screen entirely) is superior and, again, it's much like what WebOS was doing in 2009. Not to mention that iOS shows notifications on the lock screen, which is nice.

Remember that this argument started by you saying that Apple ripped off Android's notifications. I still disagree. They both stole some elements from WebOS and Android still hasn't gotten it right, IMO. Too many people are putting too much stock in "THE NOTIFICATIONS PULL DOWN!!1!!" instead of looking at the actual content and implementation. WebOS displayed their notifications on the bottom and whether the things appear at the top or bottom of the screen is irrelevant. What's important is how they display and what information is given to the user.

In my opinion, Android's notification system is just perfect. You disagree, but that's fine. I personally think that iOS notifications are still disruptive (although not nearly as much as the old pop-up system). I don't like the idea of lock screen notifications, because it's intrusive. When you wake an Android phone, the status bar will tell you if you have notifications and a quick swipe of the status bar will list them for you. Works perfectly.

Ripped off is too pejorative. But it's certainly true that that particular notification system is an Android invention. iOS took this system from Android. webOS also took the system from Android. They added their own flavours to it, but any way you look at it, Android had it before them.



           

rocketpig said:
ultima said:

My allegiances? Whatever do you mean?

Android has a lot of features that iOS is lacking. I honestly can't think of a single thing iOS has that Android didn't since 2.3. Don't give me Siri and all that, because you could get voice software from the market. Siri is just a voice recognition software hooked up to Wolfram Alpha. And, honestly, that's not as big of a deal as people claim. Everyone I know who has a 4S played with Siri for a day, then never used it again. No exceptions. When I get Jellybean myself, I'll certainly play with the voice commander for a bit, then never touch it again. It just isn't useful. Plus, these speech analyzers suck. Siri has no idea what you're talking at least half of the time. Jellybean's (official Google search app) is apparently better at this, but it's still not perfect, and, like I said, even if it were perfect, nobody would use it, because it's not useful.

You're the master of misquotation it seems. I purposefully did not say "better". I said "more powerful", meaning Gingerbread can do everything iOS5 can, and then some. I understand that the two systems have adopted substantially different paradigms, but I have a problem with neither: I have never said that I was against closed or open ecosystems.

I'll give you the nod with the Android fragmentation issue. Although that can be easily fixed with custom ROMs. I understand some people don't want to do that though, and, thus, we have the problem. This problem, it must be noted, is the result of the open nature of Android. Google surrendered control to the manufacturers and carriers; Nexus devices themselves get the updates ridiculously quickly. But it's also not true that Apple has a perfect solution. I know people whose 3GS phones became incredibly slow and laggy once the iOS5 update rolled in.

I already admitted that Google took some inspiration from Apple. Even still, the original iPhone and Android's UIs were noticeably different. In fact, Android looked more like desktop operating system, with its homescreens and widgets. Is that a wrong practice? Hell no. Everyone does it, and everyone benefits. "Borrow and improve." Sounds good, doesn't it? Steve Jobs himself said that, "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas."

We agree on the bolded; and somewhat agree on the italicized. Apple was mad? They have a right to be; they don't have a right to force others to give them compensatory cookies for that though. Some Android users were mad when iOS took some ideas from their OS. Google itself, however, wasn't. Although I have no idea where you got that Google was a partner who received early prototypes from. Source?

It's an assumption that Google was involved in early iOS development. After all, the device launched with integrated Google services. It's unlikely that Apple did that all by their lonesome and almost surely turned to Google for help with its development.

In any case, this argument is going nowhere. You accuse me of being vague and then take offense when I "misquote" your statement that "if you look at the state of these two systems now, Android is miles ahead."

How is one supposed to take that comment? We can run around all day arguing semantics but I have other things to do. Enjoy your phone.

The only Google service that was on the original iPhone was YouTube (I'm pretty sure). Which could've been developed by Apple itself (like X360 and a number of other devices have their own YouTube apps).

And how is one supposed to take that comment? How about reading the next sentence which clearly elaborates: "Gingerbread (and perhaps even FroYo) was a more powerful OS than iOS5"?



           

HappySqurriel said:
Scoobes said:
HappySqurriel said:
At its best, Apple was probably the best company in the world at marketing "technology" to non-technical people. The marketing wasn't just limited to the advertisements that ran on television and it includes the physical design of the devices and the presentation of the company. The net result was existing ideas were presented to customers for the first time in a way that appealed to them, and they believed that Apple came up with those ideas.

While it may not be fair to give him all of the credit for this, I believe that Steve Jobs was the mastermind behind the brilliant marketing of Apple and (in my opinion) I already see signs that they are having difficulty managing this without him. The recent Mac Store geniuses commercials demonstrate this problem fairly clearly in my opinion. While Apple was heavily marketing their products as being exceptionally easy to use under Steve Jobs, the Mac Store geniuses commercials show users having difficulty accomplishing simple tasks which will (likely) be interpreted by viewers as meaning Apple products are difficult to use OR Apple users are morons. Another example of a change is how lawsuit crazy Apple has become; and I suspect that under Steve Jobs Apple would have been more interested in protecting their anti-corporate image than winning a lawsuit.

Actually, I think Steve Jobs was the one that initiated the lawsuits. He wanted to vigorously defend Apple's patents.


You are probably right, but that does seem odd being that a lot of Apple's success seems to come from people thining that they're not a big "mean" corporation.

They've had years of playing second fiddle to Microsoft in the OS space to build that reputation not to mention all the clever marketing tricks (the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC ads for example). They basically built up an image of being "for the consumers/customers" whilst MS went for the business market first (mean corporations) and home customers second. Even the Apple Stores and the staff training are designed with this in mind.

Now they're the market leader in a number of segments so it'll be difficult to maintain that image. When you're on top, more people are watching and it's much easier to scrutinise everything you do.



Apple is a good manufacturer, but I doubt that they invented anything. Most of technologies are mere modifications of an original patent. It's like an issue of getting older, are we wiser when we get old or kids have better ideas compare to adults. As technology mature, there are improvements, but going back to basic is the key for improvements.