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Forums - General Discussion - Mafia Round 45: Friendship is Mafia

radishhead said:
hatmoza said:

radishhead said:

~quotes~

This is all assuming that the mafia can talk during the day time though - how long has it been since we last let the mafia talk during the day? I think it's unlikely. For now, I'm going to assume that everyone is telling the truth about their claims, to avoid extra complications for themselves later.

^ Plus what difference would it make? they are still scum, they will jus be switching groups while serving the same purpose for us to exploit.

No, stefl's post didn't make sense to me. That serves no purpose... as far as I understand it now.

If they weren't able to organise which character swaps they did, the mafia would have to be among the last ones to character claim because they'd have to fill in the holes which their teammates changed round, I think? Honestly, the whole concept is starting to confuse me now :(

No, actually it doesn't there could have just been some realclaiming scum in the beginning, and then fakeclaiming towards the end, or a really early, much more risky fakeclaim in the beginning. This is why I think switchclaiming would've been the safest possibility for scum, and it just needs a team of slightly attention paying players. I still believe we have some gain of off this, I just want to tell people now, that pretty much everyone has claimed, that there were enough possibilities for scum to manipulate the claims without going through a lot of trouble. We can only see how this really turns out once we have a flipped scum. Oh, and of course there has to be considered that all scum could've realclaimed.



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I think once we're a couple days in and have got some cop reports or something then we'll be able to make more sense of this



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radishhead said:
But wouldn't that potentially result in 5 raritys, making it obvious that two mafia are claiming rarity?


Indeed, it could.



Biggest reason for doing this now is, that in case Mafia can't daytalk, they cannot prepare such fakeclaiming methods, and had to do it on the spot, thus reducing the chance of scum actually being able to plan it out perfectly.



Soleron said:
Can anyone still on Noctis give their reason, now he's not completely lurking?

Sure. I voted him because he wasn't active enough, and that's still the case to me. A short burst of posts and replies doesn't cut it.



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For the record, I only unvoted him [Noctis] because he started posting again, and he was on L2 when I did (I think?) - he's still one of my top lynch candidates for today, but I wanted to show that I appreciated his return by giving him a bit more room to breathe



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radishhead said:

This is all assuming that the mafia can talk during the day time though - how long has it been since we last let the mafia talk during the day? I think it's unlikely. For now, I'm going to assume that everyone is telling the truth about their claims, to avoid extra complications for themselves later.

3 rounds ago. And 2 rounds ago was Day 1 only.

Why the change in stance from saying it's possible to unlikely? I know that's not a contradiction, but it's an implied one.



Linkzmax said:
radishhead said:

This is all assuming that the mafia can talk during the day time though - how long has it been since we last let the mafia talk during the day? I think it's unlikely. For now, I'm going to assume that everyone is telling the truth about their claims, to avoid extra complications for themselves later.

3 rounds ago. And 2 rounds ago was Day 1 only.

Why the change in stance from saying it's possible to unlikely? I know that's not a contradiction, but it's an implied one.

Actually, when I said the original thing about j0 (I think it was him?), it was only because I couldn't think of anything else to say after reading his posts. I thought hard before sending that part, because I didn't really believe it myself - I therefore set it up as a "possibility"; a 10% chance, in my mind.



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hatmoza said:
radishhead said:
Stefl1504 said:
hatmoza said:
that's an even ration, almost. And it's most likely very accurate since scum would have feared screwing up that ratio by lie claiming early. Perhaps we do have a liar among them, and if there is, it would have been a late claimer So HoS on the last three people who claimed.

Now early scum claimers are most likely to have been telling the truth about their claim. There was no need to lie and it's less suspicious to get your name out as early as possible.


hatmoza, what you forgot is, that next to double claiming into the same pony group, scum also could have switch claimed, or have done a combination of both, or a combination of switchclaiming, double claiming and truthfully claiming, looking at the fact that the claims are somehow balanced so far we can't really tell for sure if they did doubleclaim, but switchclaims we cannot see until we get the first scum.

This is all assuming that the mafia can talk during the day time though - how long has it been since we last let the mafia talk during the day? I think it's unlikely. For now, I'm going to assume that everyone is telling the truth about their claims, to avoid extra complications for themselves later.

^ Plus what difference would it make? they are still scum, they will jus be switching groups while serving the same purpose for us to exploit.

No, stefl's post didn't make sense to me. That serves no purpose... as far as I understand it now.

A switchclaim would still "confirm" townies if mafia flips, just not his actual flip but what he claimed. However, it could have been useful to pair scum players into pools that it would have been harder to be discovered in. Let's assume yoshi and zero are actually scum. Yoshi, being a good strategist and having high intelligence, could see that several people that are generally considered town are claiming zero's actual name. So he decides for the best of the team, he should fakeclaim into that group. Then he could daytalk with zero or signal to him in-thread that he should fakeclaim yoshi's actual name, which happens to have a shadier group of players in it. Or given zero's timing double claim into a group.

And as for talk of 5 Rarity's standing out, only mafia(since they know themselves and now know pretty much all of town) and Final-Fan would know if there was an even distribution from the start. It is just as likely that there were 5 Rarities, four of which are town and the scum Rarity claimed into a different group. Which would "confirm" himself or his partner if either is outted as well as cast suspicion on a group which contains no mafia whatsoever.



I think it is safest to assume the mafia have been able to strategise so that we don't end up going down the path of only thinking that there is one mafia in each group and each one has told the truth. If for some reason we can work out later on this hasn't been the case then sure but for now it seems safer for town to assume this isn't quite right.