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Forums - General Discussion - Your "Free" Will is Not Free

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
happydolphin said:

What about not making profits purposefully? A very different question.


If your purpose is to not make profit, then not making profit is your profit.

Put what if you know that making profit is more profitable, yet still insist to not make profits?



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happydolphin said:

But what if you know that making profit is more profitable, yet still insist to not make profits?


That's like cutting yourself. It makes no sense, and the person is in need of help. And I certainly wouldn't hate those people for hurting themselves.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
happydolphin said:

But what if you know that making profit is more profitable, yet still insist to not make profits?

That's like cutting yourself. It makes no sense, and the person is in need of help. And I certainly wouldn't hate those people for hurting themselves.

What if that's how a criminal becomes a criminal. He knows what he should be doing right and how that's more profitable, but insists to do the wrong thing, whereby developing not only habits, but redefining himself by his actions by being molded by his own choices?



happydolphin said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

That's like cutting yourself. It makes no sense, and the person is in need of help. And I certainly wouldn't hate those people for hurting themselves.

What if that's how a criminal becomes a criminal. He knows what he should be doing right and how that's more profitable, but insists to do the wrong thing, whereby developing not only habits, but redefining himself by his actions by being molded by his own choices?


I guess that would be another way of looking at my "profit theory", but the end result would still stand: It makes no sense to hate them.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

I guess that would be another way of looking at my "profit theory", but the end result would still stand: It makes no sense to hate them.

Now tying in to the example I gave Jay, that that kind of situation shouldn't really happen in reality (the guy able to run the race but still doesn't do it), how do we translate that in the topic of the will and choices?



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happydolphin said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

I guess that would be another way of looking at my "profit theory", but the end result would still stand: It makes no sense to hate them.

Now tying in to the example I gave Jay, that that kind of situation shouldn't really happen in reality (the guy able to run the race but still doesn't do it), how do we translate that in the topic of the will and choices?


If he want to finish the race but still doesn't for no reason, there is something wrong with him.

That's the only reasonable conclusion I can see.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

If he want to finish the race but still doesn't for no reason, there is something wrong with him.

That's the only reasonable conclusion I can see.

That's how I see it in the realm of choices. If someone has the capability to make a choice, but for a reason that has nothing to do with profitability, decides to do the wrong thing, something is terribly wrong with him.

In my opinion, that's evil.



happydolphin said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

If he want to finish the race but still doesn't for no reason, there is something wrong with him.

That's the only reasonable conclusion I can see.

That's how I see it in the realm of choices. If someone has the capability to make a choice, but for a reason that has nothing to do with profitability, decides to do the wrong thing, something is terribly wrong with him.

In my opinion, that's evil.


That's where I disagree with the religious view (well, and the masses who hate criminals). In my opinion it makes no sense to hate someone just because there is something wrong with him. That's like hating someone who happens to be born handicapped.

Or at least I think that it's pretty much mandatory, as a religious person, to hate evil. I may be wrong.

 

Edit: I mean, it would make more sense to feel sorry for people who generally make "evil" decisions, and to expect them to go to heaven.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

That's where I disagree with the religious view (well, and the masses who hate criminals). In my opinion it makes no sense to hate someone just because there is something wrong with him. That's like hating someone who happens to be born handicapped.

Or at least I think that it's pretty much mandatory, as a religious person, to hate evil. I may be wrong.

 

Edit: I mean, it would make more sense to feel sorry for people who generally make "evil" decisions, and to expect them to go to heaven.

Well, on a theological point of view, for Christians, we are called not to judge and to mercy.

k, so heaven isn't something that is earned by good things a person does, it's earned by the saving power of Christ. In essence the only thing that can cause one to not go to heaven is to refuse the salvation. That's it.

It's mandatory to hate evil, but not to hate the person choosing it.

But to get back to the topic, we are something and that something can generally choose what is profitable and what isn't. But ultimately if we were to rewind and start all over again, it would all happen the same way. Whatever causes a person to make bad decisions I call evil you call it a pattern of the mind, but in the end if it were to happen again, it would all happen the very same way. Could the metaphysical break this fate? maybe, but I'm not sure that would answer your question.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Jay520 said:

I get that. I'm just saying that if a man did intentionally make a bad decision, we wouldn't know because there would always be some way that his decision gained profit.


And I'm saying that it makes no sense at all for a company to make a loss on purpose. If it does, some of its employees clearly have some kind of issues.

Therefore, I think it's foolish to assume that criminals make bad decisions on purpose, instead of what the masses consider to be good decisions.



No, it wouldn't make sense. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen every day. It could, but it is impossible to confirm what happens in other people's head. Hypothetically speaking, if a person did a decision without the intent to profit, we would not know because his decision would somehow yield some profit. Do you see what I mean by saying your assertion isn't testable?