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Forums - General - Shooting at Batman Premiere - 12 dead / Your opinions on gun laws

Chandler on 20 July 2012
the_dengle said:
killerzX said:

furthermore a gun ban would still leave guns in the hands of the government, what i fear most, and the whole point of the 2nd ammendment. that empowers our ever increasing government to become even more of a totalitarian statist dictatorship.

You know what I fear most? People like you. Paranoid people who carry guns because they're afraid that the government is going to "come after them." Come off it, what do you think, that the government is going to enforce some kind of police state? That you and all of your fellow gun owners are going to march on Washington with your little handguns and "take back our country?" Do you think the military would allow that to happen? Do you think the police would allow that to happen? Do you think a bunch of civilians could OPPOSE the military if they took the side of the government?


I really can not believe what I am reading from this person. The pictures and his attitude....this is extremely disturbing. I am just happy now that I don't live in the US. We have crazy poeple too here in germany, but guess what, they don't carry guns. But I guess the nick killerzX is appropriate. He would probably be one of the first persons to be stripped off of his guns if there were stricter laws. But alas, I'm out of here, it's not my shit I have to deal with, luckily.



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t3mporary_126 on 20 July 2012

Really sad event. Based on the testimonials of the survivors it seems that ducking, staying quiet, and bringing less attention to yourself dramatically increases your chances of survival versus attempting to escaping. Can't believe he got into the theater with a concealed gun but I'm not surprised he got away with it since people usually conceal food versus weapons. It would be a good idea to stop people from concealing anything or bringing in bags in theaters now. Costumes might be thoroughly searched now...
I wonder if the movie continued playing during the shooting or if lights went back on?



insomniac17 on 20 July 2012
vlad321 said:

Your logic fails miserably, AGAIN. Show me how many massacres were actually prevented by someone with a gun. I can only vaguely, maybe, remember one that was stopped, not prevented, by someone with a gun. That's about it. I'm not even sure if I remember that correctly though.

To be fair, it is difficult to say just how often a gun wielding citizen has stopped a criminal from committing a crime, because we'll rarely hear about it. Similarly, we won't ever really know how often someone just flashing a gun to a criminal has stopped crime, because we won't hear about it. I'm not sure why you are distinguishing between stopping and preventing an incident; it would seem to me that in both cases, the law abiding citizen with a gun was the reason the massacre didn't happen. The massacres I hear about, such as this one, seem to always occur when there is no legal gun owner present, and obviously no cops or anything.

For everyone who wants a gun ban everywhere in the US; criminals could just go abroad to get guns. To everyone who wants a worldwide gun ban; good luck. It'd be great to live in a world with no guns, but that'll never happen.

For those of you who want to see permits for gun ownership, sure. I can live with that. I live in a state that requires you to get a permit if you want to conceal and carry a gun. The permit takes quite a while to get, and you have to go through a class about guns, gun safety, etc in order to get the permit, and I'm sure they check your background as well. You also need to be 21 or older. What I don't want to see is a requirement to register guns with the government.



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mrstickball on 20 July 2012
crissindahouse said:
mrstickball said:
Chandler said:
Guns just don't belong in the hands of civilians. I mean, what's the point? Self defense? Yeah, right. All a gun does is make shit worse.


Switzerland disagrees with you.

i often read from us-americans fighting for their gun rights using switzerland as example just to show that many guns aren't the reason for higher crime rates, murder rates, whatever...then they often say "crime rates are lower nowadays in usa with same amount of weapons" forgetting that almost every developed country has a much lower murder or whatever rate than 20 years ago. just one question, have you ever been in switzerland? if yes, you should know why there doesn't happen so much in this country. we are talking here about people in america who as example lose their jobs becoming desperate and IF they have already a gun at home, it is a much easier step to do something stupid with it as if they would have to buy a weapon illegally to do something with it then. or junkies who need money and have a stolen weapon from the last burglary because yes, many who illegally have a wepon in usa have one stolen from someone who had it legally.they find the weapon in a drawer or so and take it then. i don't really want to know how many people died because a burglar stole a wepon at his last burglary using that some weeks later at another burglary. your right to self defence gives those people more possibilities to get those weapon for free because junkies don't really have money to buy a weapon. but stealing them in a house searching for some money? why not right?

and if i look at the last school massacres in germany, you know what was always the same? all of the kids had parents who where members of a weapon "club" owning weapons legally. in germany, everyone with a legal weapon has to have a weapon safe with a code or something like that and still, it happened more than once (a school massacre). can't believe people really believe they would have bought a wepon on the black market instead of using the weapon of the parents.

i wonder why people in countries were you can't buy a wepon as easy as in the usa don't feel the need to get these right to safe their own lifes. people in these countries should all want to get american laws if it comes to this but exactly these people don't like the american weapon law.

1. Yes, and? The point is that correlation doesn't equal causation, so the argument about banning guns isn't made from a rational argument of "Less guns = less crime", since in our country, we've increased gun ownership while reducing crime.

2. Unemployment skyrocketed in the US in 2008. Homicides are down 10% since 2008. Unemployment, at least in the US, doesn't quite cause crime. Economic inequalities and specific cultural issues do. Those have not, and cannot, be addressed by gun control.

3. Because those countries don't have the same freedoms that the US does, and doesn't care? Some countries don't clamor for other rights. That doesn't make them any less valuable. I would point, however, to Canada's liberalization of its gun ownership laws as a note of some countries that are inded changing their laws.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

radishhead on 20 July 2012
insomniac17 said:
vlad321 said:

Your logic fails miserably, AGAIN. Show me how many massacres were actually prevented by someone with a gun. I can only vaguely, maybe, remember one that was stopped, not prevented, by someone with a gun. That's about it. I'm not even sure if I remember that correctly though.

For everyone who wants a gun ban everywhere in the US; criminals could just go abroad to get guns

Good luck trying to get the guns through the airport though - say what you like about the (probably) overly-strict border controls, but they sure make it very very difficult to bring stuff like that through



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xKakashi209x on 20 July 2012
Allfreedom99 said:
xKakashi209x said:
Wow that is just sad. People who get caught with guns and no permit should get 20 years in prison and second offense just death penalty. They need to start making penalties more longer to reduce all of this violence and crime. There should be more death penalties in the USA and go with the non expensive route with a bullet to the head = /

Death penalty for having a gun with no license even if they didn't commit a violent crime? Don't you think that would be a bit excessive for simply not having a license?

If you are not related to any pass crimes regarding robery or gang related then yeah that would be excessive. For ones with past history crimes I don't think its excessive. I'm probably biased because I live in the worst and highest death toll regarding gangs in USA ( Stockton,ca). I'm just sick and tired of all of this crime and just killing off the bad apples seems like a good idea to me. 



insomniac17 on 20 July 2012
radishhead said:

Good luck trying to get the guns through the airport though - say what you like about the (probably) overly-strict border controls, but they sure make it very very difficult to bring stuff like that through

That is not the only method of smuggling in firearms to a country.



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xKakashi209x on 20 July 2012
oldschoolfool said:
xKakashi209x said:
Wow that is just sad. People who get caught with guns and no permit should get 20 years in prison and second offense just death penalty. They need to start making penalties more longer to reduce all of this violence and crime. There should be more death penalties in the USA and go with the non expensive route with a bullet to the head = 

Yeah,that's never going to happen. Prison's are already over-crowded enough. Penalties are severe for murder,but there's no way there going to be that severe for just getting caught with a gun,without a permit. That's just not logical/pratical.


Sadly it's never going to happen.  I miss the good old days in wild west where you get a hanging for murder now its just couple of years.Yeah I get the whole over crowded prisons but they need to do something drastic that will stop all of this deaths by guns and gangs.



killerzX on 20 July 2012
Mr Khan said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
 

You're missing the bigger picture. Take a Chicago gun ban, or even an Illinois-wide gun ban for someone from Chicago. It would be easy to drive over to Gary Indiana and pick something up. Now take that gun ban and make it national, and you're going to have to find a black market or something. This might be easier for organized crime rings, of course, but it's going to be nigh impossible for someone who just wants to rob someone for oxycontin money, especially if the contraband guns are as expensive as illegal drugs because of the embargo.

The arguments about gun control are flawed because there are people in this country determined to make gun control not work.

a national gun ban wouldnt work because we have hundreds of millions a guns in this country, it would be impossible to get rid of all of them. criminals would still have them they would still be sold illegally. so as thomas jefferson said, a gun ban would only disarm the innocent, and empower the criminal making it easier for them to do crime.

and even if we somehow erradicated guns from civilians, that doesnt erradicate crime. so until you can do that, i want to defend myself. guns are the great equalizer.

furthermore a gun ban would still leave guns in the hands of the government, what i fear most, and the whole point of the 2nd ammendment. that empowers our ever increasing government to become even more of a totalitarian statist dictatorship.

You don't need guns to stop the government. The Soviets didn't need them. Hell, guns were what got them the Soviet Union in the first place, because the majority of Russians sure as hell didn't want Communism, but the Bolsheviks were well-armed and better-organized than the gun-toting Whites. Guns got them Communism, peaceful protest got them freedom. Generally countries that win their freedom with guns don't end up being very nice places afterwards (the US being an exception, largely because our "Revolution" was executed by democratically-elected officials at the colonial level fighting higher-level British institutions), but you can look at Eritrea, Algeria, pretty much all of Latin America, or former Portuguese Africa or Indonesia.

It would be easy to impose: a no-questions-asked grace period where anyone can turn in a firearm for destruction, preserve hunting so long as the guns are kept locked up when not being used for hunting, and allowances for antiques and collectables. After that, any gun that's found is a $25,000 fine (or 1 year in jail for every thousand dollars that you can't afford to pay on the fine), plus $100 per round of ammunition.

you are crazy. you shock me by how much of a statist you are, the more and more i hear from you.

and you pretty much proved my point that guns gave them communism, its quite easy to do with an unarmed populice. and the soviet union was hardly brought down by peaceful protest, you shoul brush up on ur history. and seeing that the nazi's came to power, banned guns, leaving the populice defenseless, and then the nazis were brought to their knees because of lots and lots of guns (war) it prove my point further.

and seeing as the arre millions of illegal gun in the US, and millions more a prefectly legal and which the goverment has no way of knowing if you own them, you sytem is terribly flawed and scary.

for you to know, the government has no idea how many and which guns i own, and all of them are legally in my possesion. so good luck having them tracking them and taking them from me.



VetteDude on 20 July 2012
radishhead said:

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19071381/shooting-at-theater-during-batman-premiere-in-colorado

I just turned on the news and I saw this incident - apparently it's the worst in the USA since a school shooting many years ago (I think), so it's extremely saddening.

Aside from just reporting the story however (which I assume American users know about already), I wondered what your opinions were regarding gun laws. It's impossible to deny that the chances of such a tragedy happening would be reduced if ownership of a gun is illegal without a license (assuming these licenses were very difficult to get, and wouldn't allow a civilian to carry one in public). Is the idea of possessing a gun an outdated idea, or is it still significant in the mo

You've probably never shot an assualt rifle in you life and you are calling for a gun ban. I'm a law abiding citizen, I would never do this. But if I was in the movie  with my concealed carry, that guy would have been dead as soon as the first shot was fired.  And yes, to get a concealed carry you have to pass a test and go to classes. The only ones who abide by a gun ban are law abiding citizens. What would happen is more stuff like this where nobody can protect themselves.