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Forums - Politics - Glenn Beck calls for increase in charitable giving along with shrinking government. Do you agree?

Mr Khan said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
Chris Hu said:

Its better to give money with a open heart anyway.  Most conservatives give money out of guilt. 

Actually, research tends to point the other way.... Marketing is more effective on liberals when it focuses on the suffering people are going through.  While it works better on republicans when it focuses on a communal duty to do right by your community.


Although this may be due to a ceiling effect because religious people in general do give more.  Religious correlating of course with conservative.

You wouldn't have access to scientific journals would you?

What you just stated sounds like what he said, in description of conservatives.  Appealing to communal duty is an appeal to guilt.  It is focused on the individual to do what is right and personal responsibility to do this.  The liberal view would be on the person being helped and trying to help them any way they can, even if it involves raising taxes.  And this would make a lot of sense explaining how political talk is structured and what is said in it.  The conservative view is, "Who really cares?" and a focus on what the giver does, because it is about what people do on a personal level.  This individualistic view will also cause things not to be viewed systemically, and asking, what can be done to address systemic issues.  Today, viewing poverty as a systemic issue, and not one of personal responsibility, is a liberal approach.

This being said, who said there it is wrong to appeal to guilt if it gets people to do the right thing?  Moral conduct has guilt as part of it.  Guilt is a factor to drive people to think differently on things.

This is an interesting viewpoint, as it could suggest that Conservatives operate on motive-based morality and Liberals operate on ends-based morality.

I am going to trust what Kas said is correct regarding the research.  If that is the case, then it does explain a lot.  It makes sense to me, because modern conservatism, at its core, has roots in classic liberalism and the individual elevated.  It also borrows from the tradition of religion, and collective responsibilities.  This contrasts with modern liberalism, which ends up getting elements of Marxism and egalitarianism in it, but also desires that people find their own personal values in life.  End result, assume that what I said is in the ballpark, you will have modern liberals and conservates going at it in forums like this, and the each thinking the other side is completely and utterly daft and stupid, as they keep yelling louder and louder at each other for missing what they see as the obvious.

What you wrote above is a way to look at it, coming from the desired ideals that Liberals and Conservatives have now, which are different.  There is WAY too much to go into here, risking being wrong if it is discussed.  I will say that, so long as the views remained locked and people don't see the other side, there is little hope of reaching common ground, and politics will remain a battlefield of a clash of wills, rather than reaching consensus on anything.



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The smaller government is, the less tax money is needed to sustain it. More money goes back into your pocket, the more you can use it to do charitable works.



LivingMetal said:
The smaller government is, the less tax money is needed to sustain it. More money goes back into your pocket, the more you can use it to do charitable works.

Can do doesn't mean that people will.  End result can be, changing the current situation will result in those in need being worse off.  Whether that will happen is subject to debate in this thread, and would be useful if someone can show what the change in charitable giving would be, if you were to shrink the size of government and have it do less.



This whole thread is funny.
Where does it say that conservatives respond more to "duty" contributions?

IIRC, conservatives want to abolish things that they pay for in taxes, if they already pay for it themselves.
For example, send kid to private school, I shouldn't be taxed for public schools.
How is that duty?

Also charity laws are broken.
Welfare is money that goes directly to people, for them to use how they need.
Charity is money that gets filtered through a system and ends up being 30% of the original amount, to decide what those people need.

 

I also highly dispute that conservatives have better morality than liberals. (Looking at Kohlberg's stages of development)
Unless of course most of this "research" relies on the fact that more poor, disadvantaged, demographics are liberal.

If we were to look at organizations and laws that are deemed to be conservative or liberal, I'm sure we'd be looking at a different result. Liberal agenda tends to focus on universal ethical principles, and social contracts than conservative agenda, which seems to be more focused on social order and conformity.



richardhutnik said:
MrBubbles said:
almost every single charity is just full of greedy bloodsuckers...why in the world would i want to see them get even more money? we all know whats in their pocketses...everyones money... and almost nothing to their alleged cause.

As opposed to everyone individually being greedy bloodsuckers?  Is it you say this, because you believe everyone is full of greedy bloodsuckers, so you yourself, who you realize is also a greedy bloodsucker, feel you want to hold onto your own money.  If that is the case, they why care about what others want to do or don't do with their own money.  Care to explain that Ayn?


it would seem to me that in the context of this thread, taking the position of not giving all the money to charities would go hand in hand with the position of not shrinking the government(unless otherwise stated).  additionally, i clearly attack the structure of (most) charities and not the concept of them.    im not sure whether to be annoyed or amused at having recieved such a peculiar response...



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Well, you can't force people to give money to charity... that would be taxes.

This idea is as American as it possibly can be, and it sickens me. Basically, those who choose to help others will have less money while those who choose to be selfish will be rewarded.

Like I said, sickening.


Kasz216 said:

There needs to be an increase in charitable giving even if you don't get rid of government spending in my opinion.

I wonder if you would see it though.

In general it seems to be shown that when people think welfare is primarily the roll of the government they're more likely to be content not giving to charity and saying "Oh well the government has failed those people not me."

Surely you'd see an increase from the other side of some sort... I wonder if it would be enough. Charity is a LOT more efficient so there is a chance but...  I imagine there would still be gaps in the system based on area.


A rich person once told me, that rich people give because its socially unacceptable not to, as a matter of fact a rich person that does not donate is often shuned by their own peers. I think that is a good social contract as long as it keeps the money flowing. It's one of those few conservative ideal's I actually agree with.

The only problem I have is if government services do shrink, which I think they should, whether or not charitable giving will be enough to supplment our nations needy at a time where that is rather high percentage.



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Chris Hu said:
killerzX said:
Chris Hu said:
WiiBox3 said:

Of course he says that. You get a huge tax write-off if you give to charity.

I'm for smaller government, but I think that more money should be spent on education. Good education leads to a better country. Why do we spen more money on Jails and cut money from education. If we spent more money on education, we wouldn't need to spend as much on Jails.

Also here is his promotion for his own charity.

 

This pretty much proofs that Glenn Beck isn't about charity his main agenda has and always will be self promotion.

care to elaborate on how this "proofs" that glenn beck doesnt care about helping but but wants only to promote himself.

how is striving to improve our nation, being kind to neighbors, returning to the constitution just a way to self promote.

 

if his main goal is to only self promote himself, he is terribly inefficient at it. why would he bother to in such a round about way promote himself through giving, if he didnt care about the poor.

i dont get it, in the face of facts, you throw them off to the side and just insert your own biased beliefs (which our based off of nothing). why would glenn beck and his listeners give millions to charity, if they didnt care about the needy.

why do you completely ignore the facts that are in front of you. you already been proven wrong several times in this thread, yet you keep coming back with nonsubstatiated claims.

Glenn Beck is a major asshole and their is nothing you can say that will make me think otherwise.  This whole kindness game he is playing is part of his conversion to mormonism and another reason is because he wants to look good to his sponsors and make up for the BS he says most of the time but the fact is that he is a arrogant asshole that is all about self promotion.  Also I have been proven right numerous times also in this thread but you just want to ignore that like the facts about Glenn Beck.

I'm not sure if he is an asshole, but his TV personality is. He could genuinly belive in his charity. And he could be a very caring person. But his TV personality is why he is paid the big bucks, like Rush, Oberman, O'Reilly, Stewart, and Maddow.



richardhutnik said:
LivingMetal said:
The smaller government is, the less tax money is needed to sustain it. More money goes back into your pocket, the more you can use it to do charitable works.

Can do doesn't mean that people will.  End result can be, changing the current situation will result in those in need being worse off.  Whether that will happen is subject to debate in this thread, and would be useful if someone can show what the change in charitable giving would be, if you were to shrink the size of government and have it do less.


This in itself is true, but there is no perfect system due to the human race being imperfect.  I can only do the best I can do while hoping to improve in life while hoping that my good actions along with others will teach and influence others to the same.  Also, govenment is not going to know and understand every problem and its context.  The problems in my community isn't always the same as other communities.  As I get more involved in my community, I will understand the problems around me which will allow me to find a more effective solution.  And then I must use whatever resources available to employ those solutions.  Both human behavior and legal policies can change.  I'd prefer to take moral stands and actions out of conviction and choice instead of having my actions determined by legal obligation.



theprof00 said:

This whole thread is funny.
Where does it say that conservatives respond more to "duty" contributions?

IIRC, conservatives want to abolish things that they pay for in taxes, if they already pay for it themselves.
For example, send kid to private school, I shouldn't be taxed for public schools.
How is that duty?

Also charity laws are broken.
Welfare is money that goes directly to people, for them to use how they need.
Charity is money that gets filtered through a system and ends up being 30% of the original amount, to decide what those people need.

 

I also highly dispute that conservatives have better morality than liberals. (Looking at Kohlberg's stages of development)
Unless of course most of this "research" relies on the fact that more poor, disadvantaged, demographics are liberal.

If we were to look at organizations and laws that are deemed to be conservative or liberal, I'm sure we'd be looking at a different result. Liberal agenda tends to focus on universal ethical principles, and social contracts than conservative agenda, which seems to be more focused on social order and conformity.

You're dead on with that reasonsing. One thing I disagree with on the conservative side is the enforcement of a mandatory social contract based on the status quo. If they'd embrace the more Liberal idea of social contracts, which I think is far more representative of the individual liberty that this country is supposed to be based upon...but even then there are some Liberal policies that I take issue with (such as there polcies on free speech accept when that speech is questionable.)



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.