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Forums - Politics Discussion - Paul Krugman: Greece Euro exit possible next month, end of the euro in the next months?

Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:

And with it dies the talk of the "Amero", or whatever else was floating around.  Apparently the road to a one world government is paved by economic realities.


Maybe politically, but not practically.

It's not like the Euro is fundamentally flawed.  Just poorly executed.

The Per capita and total GDP difference and realities in Europe aren't DRASTICALLY different from those in the United States between the different states.

Actually, i believe the US is MORE volitile and seperated in such areas.

The big difference is that US states have to balance there budgets by law.  (Not that they always do anyway.....)

I will throw in politically also, because when you start to see the whole conspiracy theory stuff bubbling up, which Amero talk came from, you will end up having "Euro!" come out as a one word retort that will shut down debate with people on forums like this.  Of course, this will only happen onces the Euro fades.  If suddenly you see dictatorial sweep and push for further unification, and the voters of countries rolling over, then the Amero talk will be back with a vengance, with gold peddlers backing newsletter and blog sites that speak to the end of the world in the form of a One World Government.  



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richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:

And with it dies the talk of the "Amero", or whatever else was floating around.  Apparently the road to a one world government is paved by economic realities.


Maybe politically, but not practically.

It's not like the Euro is fundamentally flawed.  Just poorly executed.

The Per capita and total GDP difference and realities in Europe aren't DRASTICALLY different from those in the United States between the different states.

Actually, i believe the US is MORE volitile and seperated in such areas.

The big difference is that US states have to balance there budgets by law.  (Not that they always do anyway.....)

I will throw in politically also, because when you start to see the whole conspiracy theory stuff bubbling up, which Amero talk came from, you will end up having "Euro!" come out as a one word retort that will shut down debate with people on forums like this.  Of course, this will only happen onces the Euro fades.  If suddenly you see dictatorial sweep and push for further unification, and the voters of countries rolling over, then the Amero talk will be back with a vengance, with gold peddlers backing newsletter and blog sites that speak to the end of the world in the form of a One World Government.  

That's more or less how they got it this far anyway.  So I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

 

I'd note though.  Even most people in Greece today WANT to stay in the Euro.

They just don't want to have to pay for their debt.



The Euro was a half -arsed attampt at currency union. It left States with too much national sovereignty. If you want to think about currency union then you just need to look at the USA. In amny respects the USA has as much economic diversity as the Eurozone. You have some very wealthy states and you have some very poor states, and the level of political corruption varies. But it's not left up to rich states to decide whether to bail out the indebted states if there is a budget blow out. It's the Federal govt which negotiates with the indebted state. So with Germany holding effectively holding the purse strings it's a situation ripe for holding states to ransom, rather than working out a balanced approach.

Also, Louisianna going belly up wouldn't threaten to cause the whole USD to crumble.

No the Euro is a failed experimaent at currency union while retaining significant economic and political sovereignty. If you want one currency then you have to cede more sovereignty to the central governing power. If you don't like the smell of that idea then go back to national currencies. This half-baked attempt was really doomed to failure from the start.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

binary solo said:
The Euro was a half -arsed attampt at currency union. It left States with too much national sovereignty. If you want to think about currency union then you just need to look at the USA. In amny respects the USA has as much economic diversity as the Eurozone. You have some very wealthy states and you have some very poor states, and the level of political corruption varies. But it's not left up to rich states to decide whether to bail out the indebted states if there is a budget blow out. It's the Federal govt which negotiates with the indebted state. So with Germany holding effectively holding the purse strings it's a situation ripe for holding states to ransom, rather than working out a balanced approach.

Also, Louisianna going belly up wouldn't threaten to cause the whole USD to crumble.

No the Euro is a failed experimaent at currency union while retaining significant economic and political sovereignty. If you want one currency then you have to cede more sovereignty to the central governing power. If you don't like the smell of that idea then go back to national currencies. This half-baked attempt was really doomed to failure from the start.

Europe wanted to have all the benefits of a common currency, without giving up natioanl sovereignty.  Keep in mind, the countries in Europe are not like the states in the USA.  They are all independent nations, with their own cultures and values.  Those pushing neo-liberal economic policies led them to believe that they could have a utopia of sorts, all the problems would magically iron themselves out, and there would be so much abundance from free trade generated by the common currency, nothing else will matter.  Yes, they sold a bill of goods to the people in Europe.

Well, this is how the pushers of neo-liberal policies of globalization go about doing what they do.  Just speak of how wonderful everything will be in the end, and there won't be any fallout at all one needs to be concerned about.  Just sign on the bottom line they say.



binary solo said:
The Euro was a half -arsed attampt at currency union. It left States with too much national sovereignty. If you want to think about currency union then you just need to look at the USA. In amny respects the USA has as much economic diversity as the Eurozone. You have some very wealthy states and you have some very poor states, and the level of political corruption varies. But it's not left up to rich states to decide whether to bail out the indebted states if there is a budget blow out. It's the Federal govt which negotiates with the indebted state. So with Germany holding effectively holding the purse strings it's a situation ripe for holding states to ransom, rather than working out a balanced approach.

Also, Louisianna going belly up wouldn't threaten to cause the whole USD to crumble.

No the Euro is a failed experimaent at currency union while retaining significant economic and political sovereignty. If you want one currency then you have to cede more sovereignty to the central governing power. If you don't like the smell of that idea then go back to national currencies. This half-baked attempt was really doomed to failure from the start.

Well the problem in the US is... it's the richest states that have the budget shortfalls.

Doesn't make sense but our richer states like California tend to do less with more.



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Either way this is just a lose/lose for everyone.

I would imagine when you put a country like Greece on the same financial rules as Germany you are asking for trouble. Germany is keeping things steady atm, even though Austerity seems like it's hurting the smaller countries. However I am honestly confused when everyone copies Americas financial strategy of exporting a lot and outsourcing work etc to keep costs low. Someone has to be importing all those products and you can't expect the smaller countries to import that much.



Living in the Netherlands. These seem to be interesting times for the future of European (des)integration.