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Forums - Politics - Who does acts of aggression not thinking it is "self-defense"?

richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).



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Also, plenty of countries don't attack for self defense.

Self preservation? Yes. Self Defense? No.

A number of wars have been fought not because of external threat but because of a lack of resources.

It's often the same with robberies and muggings in general.

 

Always sociopaths too like Charles Manson and others who kill just because they want to  or convince others to kill just to prove their influence etc.

 

A lot of mobsters know they can "go straight" if they want to as well and be fine.  They don't however cause they like the money and influence, they certaitnly aren't killing for self defense.



Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).

Zimmerman was involved with neighborhood watch.  Case can be said he pursued, because he felt houses were threatened by robberies, and he got tired of it.  He presumed Martin to be a criminal based on what he saw and operated out of that.  I am sure Zimmerman felt threatened by what was going on overall, which led him to be more aggressive than he would of been otherwise.  And you likely had Martin also feeling threatened, so it led to an altercation with someone dead.  Feeling threatened led to extra aggression.

Stand your ground is said not to apply for Zimmerman though.  At least Jeb Bush I believe said the law didn't apply.



Kasz216 said:

Also, plenty of countries don't attack for self defense.

Self preservation? Yes. Self Defense? No.

A number of wars have been fought not because of external threat but because of a lack of resources.

It's often the same with robberies and muggings in general.

 

Always sociopaths too like Charles Manson and others who kill just because they want to  or convince others to kill just to prove their influence etc.

 

A lot of mobsters know they can "go straight" if they want to as well and be fine.  They don't however cause they like the money and influence, they certaitnly aren't killing for self defense.

There is squabbles over resources that can happen.  What will happen is the threatened side feels provoked and then is justified to act, in the case of war.  They feel their being is threatened.  Broaded a bit what I am saying and self-preservation ends up fitting here also.  You have the case of Iraq invading Kuwait, because apparently Kuwait threatened oil Iraq wanted by how it drilled.

Pretty much it is a state of panic and fear that drives aggression to hapen, for most of the part.  In the case of mobsters, I do believe they lean far more on the threat of force then actually doing it.  Idea is to get what you want without the violence.  Any type of act of aggression on their part will either be retalliatory or a preemptive strike against an enemy before they get them.

Now theft or taking of property I would say has a different motivation behind it, and can happen aggressively.  Person stealing will end up doing such to get what they feel they deserve, and will often look to do it without harming physically the other person, just maybe even things out some.  You can get violence here, but often done preemptively.  It can also happen if the thief feels they may have witnesses and faces a bad fate.



Definitely signs of insanity, mental asylum will welcome him with open arms.



           

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richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).

Zimmerman was involved with neighborhood watch.  Case can be said he pursued, because he felt houses were threatened by robberies, and he got tired of it.  He presumed Martin to be a criminal based on what he saw and operated out of that.  I am sure Zimmerman felt threatened by what was going on overall, which led him to be more aggressive than he would of been otherwise.  And you likely had Martin also feeling threatened, so it led to an altercation with someone dead.  Feeling threatened led to extra aggression.

Stand your ground is said not to apply for Zimmerman though.  At least Jeb Bush I believe said the law didn't apply.

Quite a few people did.  Including the original authors.



Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).

Zimmerman was involved with neighborhood watch.  Case can be said he pursued, because he felt houses were threatened by robberies, and he got tired of it.  He presumed Martin to be a criminal based on what he saw and operated out of that.  I am sure Zimmerman felt threatened by what was going on overall, which led him to be more aggressive than he would of been otherwise.  And you likely had Martin also feeling threatened, so it led to an altercation with someone dead.  Feeling threatened led to extra aggression.

Stand your ground is said not to apply for Zimmerman though.  At least Jeb Bush I believe said the law didn't apply.

Quite a few people did.  Including the original authors.


That's because he suppose to stop his pursuit but he didn't meaning he cause the first altercation and when it got out of hand he used lethal force. It's like if a man was stalking a women and she pepper sprayed him and he shot her in retaliation. The thing about that case is its being clouded by race and people overlook facts and react with hate.



Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

"I don't debate, I just give you that work"- Ji99saw

Ji99saw said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).

Zimmerman was involved with neighborhood watch.  Case can be said he pursued, because he felt houses were threatened by robberies, and he got tired of it.  He presumed Martin to be a criminal based on what he saw and operated out of that.  I am sure Zimmerman felt threatened by what was going on overall, which led him to be more aggressive than he would of been otherwise.  And you likely had Martin also feeling threatened, so it led to an altercation with someone dead.  Feeling threatened led to extra aggression.

Stand your ground is said not to apply for Zimmerman though.  At least Jeb Bush I believe said the law didn't apply.

Quite a few people did.  Including the original authors.


That's because he suppose to stop his pursuit but he didn't meaning he cause the first altercation and when it got out of hand he used lethal force. It's like if a man was stalking a women and she pepper sprayed him and he shot her in retaliation. The thing about that case is its being clouded by race and people overlook facts and react with hate.

Yeah, that became pretty clear when it became apparent all the forensic evidence hadn't even come back yet.

People are used to Law and Order like speed though.



You know what makes me mad.. his defence team.. they had a photoshoot:





like wtf? this isn't a TV show.. 77 young people died and their ego's are so big that they took this case and put themselfs in the spotlight like that.. it's sickening..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

Kasz216 said:
Ji99saw said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
I find it kinda hard to call it self-defence when you're the aggressor.

Stand your ground law, that is at work in the Martin-Zimmerman case, can claim this to be so.  People claiming self-defense end up saying they acted preemptively, to defend themself or get "justice".  It is interesting to find out if more evil has been done in the name of "righteousness" than it had been by selfish reasoning.

Doesn't seem relevent, since the guy did have brusings so clearly the gunshot happened AFTER a physical confrontation.

I Imagine you tuned out of that story right when they said they had police videotape that showed he didn't have bruising, and right before the enhanced footage showed he did, and the lack of injuries was due to grainy video footage.

 

Also, the stand your ground law wouldn't of held up anyway considering he pursued.  The gun did exactly what it was supposed to do... protect someone in self defense.  However he did something he wasn't supposed to, start an altercation that caused such a situation in the first place.  (all allegedly of course).

Zimmerman was involved with neighborhood watch.  Case can be said he pursued, because he felt houses were threatened by robberies, and he got tired of it.  He presumed Martin to be a criminal based on what he saw and operated out of that.  I am sure Zimmerman felt threatened by what was going on overall, which led him to be more aggressive than he would of been otherwise.  And you likely had Martin also feeling threatened, so it led to an altercation with someone dead.  Feeling threatened led to extra aggression.

Stand your ground is said not to apply for Zimmerman though.  At least Jeb Bush I believe said the law didn't apply.

Quite a few people did.  Including the original authors.


That's because he suppose to stop his pursuit but he didn't meaning he cause the first altercation and when it got out of hand he used lethal force. It's like if a man was stalking a women and she pepper sprayed him and he shot her in retaliation. The thing about that case is its being clouded by race and people overlook facts and react with hate.

Yeah, that became pretty clear when it became apparent all the forensic evidence hadn't even come back yet.

People are used to Law and Order like speed though.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not but it does not matter for the simple fact the dispatcher told him to stop pursuit and he continued anyway until it caused an altercation, we already know that's what happened if he would have turned around it's safe to assume he would not be in this situation.



Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve.

"I don't debate, I just give you that work"- Ji99saw