DoesWhatNintenDont said: I know that people find Sony pulling out of the industry as asinine, but it’s probable. Personally I think we will see a PS4, but recently I found out that during PS2's life, thus far, it has only made 2 billion dollars. Sure, sure it’s a good bit of money, but when you contrast and compare how much Nintendo has been able to ascertain even with their last two consoles, which are often labeled failures, it sort of makes you scratch you head as with the biggest console of all time, currently, they couldn’t make more money. Thing is, Sony uses a lot of loss-leading techniques which have thankfully paid off. PS3 seems to project a future of “failure” as classified by the console industry. Sorry to all the Sony Fanboys out there ( That’s you Hus and Kwaad ) but this is what almost all market analysts are saying. Now when you contrast and compare the fact that the original Xbox went 4-5 billion in the hole, and 360 has yet to make an ounce of profit, only adding that the previous debt, you start to see how bleak the industry looks for MS if they can’t pull off a victory this round. ( This too also proves doubtful, but Sony’s failures will only be spoils for MS to take.) Also a few minor notes, Sony didn’t invent mature games, they simply help expand the market. Atari had games like Beatem’ and Eatem’ and Custer’s Revenge. With rather pitiful graphics, you still can’t get more “hardcore” or “mature” then those. XD

 See that is what is diffrent from last gen, and this gen. Sony, for the PS2, did very little 1st party. So far... I'm not gonna pull a number out, but how many 1st party games did sony do on the PS2? Because sony is gonna have close to 10-20 by the end of 2007, for the PS3. That is amazing. Sony has learned. Profit comes from AAA games. Not the console, Not the comissions.  :)

Kwaad said: See that is what is diffrent from last gen, and this gen. Sony, for the PS2, did very little 1st party. So far... I'm not gonna pull a number out, but how many 1st party games did sony do on the PS2? Because sony is gonna have close to 10-20 by the end of 2007, for the PS3. That is amazing. Sony has learned. Profit comes from AAA games. Not the console, Not the comissions. :)

 Kwaad,

              I think it is good that Sony has learned. It shows that they are responsive and, at least, are not bull headed enough to adapt. But I think just because Sony is now developing games first party, this doesn't equal money in the bank. Sony still has to prove those titles worthy, and of AAA status. Just because Sony has enough money to buy out some companies and call their product "first party" doesn't mean it will translate into great games.

Look how well this strategy has worked  for MS so far....

^

Yes, Resistance:FOM, Motorstorm, Formula One, Lair, Warhawk, Ratchet & Clank, and Heavenly Sword are all first-party.

 Anyway, there is a much bigger chance of Microsoft leaving the console business than Sony. The biggest problem with the PS3 is the price, and even then, it's not a total disaster. It has actually sold more units than the 360 did at this point in time which is saying a lot considering that it is $200 more expensive, has two next-gen competitors, and wasn't available in Europe until last month(which includes missing the holiday season), and the PS3 won't be $600 forever. Even if the PS3 ended up in 3rd place, it wouldn't be by much, and Sony could easily rectify the problem by making the PS4 cheaper.

The Xbox1 lost over 4 billion dollars and the 360 has lost 1.26 billion to date. Consumers may not care much about this, but investors and shareholders do. They aren't going to tolerate these losses indefinitely because they want to see returns on their investments.. Not to mention, the people who run Microsoft are businessmen, first and foremost, and they aren't going to keep a sinking ship in their fleet. Overall, the billions that this project has cost aren't very big losses to the company, but they are not going to keep pouring money into something that doesn't return any profits. The 360 is only very popular in N. America. It's a flop in Japan and has only done so-so in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if both Sony and Nintendo surpass it in Europe by the end of this holiday season.

 

This is why I don't understand why they're bothering with this 360 elite. They'll be taking a loss on it, and it pretty much guarantees that they can't drop the price on the premium and core because it would make the elite's price tag look even more bloated than it already is. This kind of thing reminds me of the Sega 32X only it's even worse because it does nothing for gaming.

 

 

 

Gimme a list of the 10 - 20 SCE games that are being released on the PS3 Kwaad, i'd like to know.

The PS2 had these (of which I know Sony published, but not necessarily developed) -

Ape Escape - moderate
Buzz Junior - Big Quiz, Music Quiz, Sports Quiz etc - massive in Europe
Crisis Zone - craptastic
Eyetoy - Groove, Sport, Play 1 2 3, Kinetic etc - massive in most markets
Gran Turismo 3 4 - HUGE titles
God of War 1 2 - HUGE again
Jak & Daxter, Renegate, 3, X - Moderate to massive
Killzone - Moderate to low success
Ico - Bust
Ratchet & Clank 2, 3 Gladiator - Moderate - Massive
Singstar 80s, anthems, legends, party,
Socom 2, 3 - relative success, not great
The Getaway - Not bad, decent, moderate


That's all that I can think of for the PS2 at the moment, so they definitely have a LOT of room to improve.

Show me the money.

Lord N said: ^ Yes, Resistance:FOM, Motorstorm, Formula One, Lair, Warhawk, Ratchet & Clank, and Heavenly Sword are all first-party. Anyway, there is a much bigger chance of Microsoft leaving the console business than Sony. The biggest problem with the PS3 is the price, and even then, it's not a total disaster. It has actually sold more units than the 360 did at this point in time which is saying a lot considering that it is $200 more expensive, has two next-gen competitors, and wasn't available in Europe until last month(which includes missing the holiday season), and the PS3 won't be $600 forever. Even if the PS3 ended up in 3rd place, it wouldn't be by much, and Sony could easily rectify the problem by making the PS4 cheaper. The Xbox1 lost over 4 billion dollars and the 360 has lost 1.26 billion to date. Consumers may not care much about this, but investors and shareholders do. They aren't going to tolerate these losses indefinitely because they want to see returns on their investments.. Not to mention, the people who run Microsoft are businessmen, first and foremost, and they aren't going to keep a sinking ship in their fleet. Overall, the billions that this project has cost aren't very big losses to the company, but they are not going to keep pouring money into something that doesn't return any profits. The 360 is only very popular in N. America. It's a flop in Japan and has only done so-so in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if both Sony and Nintendo surpass it in Europe by the end of this holiday season.   This is why I don't understand why they're bothering with this 360 elite. They'll be taking a loss on it, and it pretty much guarantees that they can't drop the price on the premium and core because it would make the elite's price tag look even more bloated than it already is. This kind of thing reminds me of the Sega 32X only it's even worse because it does nothing for gaming.

 I thought ALL of those games you listed are second party....

Lord N said: ^ Yes, Resistance:FOM, Motorstorm, Formula One, Lair, Warhawk, Ratchet & Clank, and Heavenly Sword are all first-party.  Anyway, there is a much bigger chance of Microsoft leaving the console business than Sony. The biggest problem with the PS3 is the price, and even then, it's not a total disaster. It has actually sold more units than the 360 did at this point in time which is saying a lot considering that it is $200 more expensive, has two next-gen competitors, and wasn't available in Europe until last month(which includes missing the holiday season), and the PS3 won't be $600 forever. Even if the PS3 ended up in 3rd place, it wouldn't be by much, and Sony could easily rectify the problem by making the PS4 cheaper. The Xbox1 lost over 4 billion dollars and the 360 has lost 1.26 billion to date. Consumers may not care much about this, but investors and shareholders do. They aren't going to tolerate these losses indefinitely because they want to see returns on their investments.. Not to mention, the people who run Microsoft are businessmen, first and foremost, and they aren't going to keep a sinking ship in their fleet. Overall, the billions that this project has cost aren't very big losses to the company, but they are not going to keep pouring money into something that doesn't return any profits. The 360 is only very popular in N. America. It's a flop in Japan and has only done so-so in Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if both Sony and Nintendo surpass it in Europe by the end of this holiday season.   This is why I don't understand why they're bothering with this 360 elite. They'll be taking a loss on it, and it pretty much guarantees that they can't drop the price on the premium and core because it would make the elite's price tag look even more bloated than it already is. This kind of thing reminds me of the Sega 32X only it's even worse because it does nothing for gaming.     Â

And since Sony is lead by idiots, not businessmen and shareholdels who want profit, company which has a lot of debt won't leave the market, if they can't get even, because they think gaming industry is fun for them?

 

OriGin:

They are first-party IP's that are developed by second and sometimes third parties..

 You can say the same thing about the Kirby games, Starfox Adventures, Super Smash Brothers Melee, Halo, Viva Pinata, and Forza.

bdbdbd said:   And since Sony is lead by idiots, not businessmen and shareholdels who want profit, company which has a lot of debt won't leave the market, if they can't get even, because they think gaming industry is fun for them?

 

 

This post is hardly coherent, but anyway...

The last time I checked, Sony's ventures into the console market have actually been profitable whereas Microsoft's have not. No argument here.

 

 

 

Actually Halo is 1st party, as Microsoft owns Bungie.

Lord N said: bdbdbd said:   And since Sony is lead by idiots, not businessmen and shareholdels who want profit, company which has a lot of debt won't leave the market, if they can't get even, because they think gaming industry is fun for them?     This post is hardly coherent, but anyway... The last time I checked, Sony's ventures into the console market have actually been profitable whereas Microsoft's have not. No argument here.     Â

Sony has been so far profitable, but soon profit making PS2 leaves the market. Then theres only PSP and PS3 for Sony. This means, that before that, they have to start making profit with PS3. Looking at Sonys financial situation, which is not wery good, they can't afford wasting money the same way M$ can afford. To boost PS3 sales, they have to drop price and invest on a massive advertisement campain. Looking at financials again, they can't afford doing this, even that they have to. Even that Sony has invested a lot to PS3, they have to think over, that is there a possibility to break even with PS3, and if not they have to mark PS3 investments as a loss and maybe even to sell the SCE (now we should remember the PSP), maybe to M$, Nintendo or Sega. Sony is going to focus more on the first party games development, but they increase their risks also, if they are not planning to go as a 3rd party developer. In a situation, in which Sony is, companies usually sell their non-primary business areas, even Sony is doing so. Just look how they quit the TV manufacturing. Sonys problem is, that it works in too many areas. From M$ and Sony, it's hard to say which one would be first to leave, M$ has the money to hang on until they can be profitable, Sony does not, but they have showed that they can make profitable consoles, but they can't afford to wait if sales aren't decent. Both have bad business strategies at the moment.