Man we should ask sallary on ioi on history lessons in VGChartz.lol

Some Dorians who left what was considered hellenistic soil and mixed with some other ethnic groups who conquered and assimilated tribes already present, and were not seen as greeks by those Dorians (and others) who became the collection of loose city states bound to each other by there shared culture.

People who also spoke two different languages.  One of the common greek of it's time used to communicate with others in rthe region (Common greek of course only being amongst those who had to deal with the other nations in the area.) Also a second language derived from doric and local languages that could not be discerned by the people of greece, so if it was a doric dialect it was quite different from the doric greek.

Therefore they are not greeks. 

Just how an Italian descended from a germanic tribe would not be seen as french as well because some germans tribes became the franks.  If France was then to invade Italy, Italians woudl not suddenly become french. 

I believe they were seen as pretenders who as first with Alexander the 1st claimed heritage from hercules and thus was alowed to enter the olympic games due mostly to politial pressure.  After all he was quite helpeful giving them advice even under persian rule. (Despite the fact that many macedonians and likely the leaders were of dorians and his claims that he was from the ancient greeks may be true.)

I mean how else does one proves his hertiage to a mythical character is quite an interesting question. 

Either way it should be noted that many did not wish to run with him as they saw the Macedonians as not greek and it took a ruling from the Hellandoikai to let him in.

Even this much of a connection I would put in doubt as basically the only reason we think this is because Alexander 1 said so.

Basically I believe the majority of greek states believed them to be frauds who were allowed in to the olympics due to a made up heritage.  Why else would other macedonians not be allowed why would he have to prove it?  Simple, they weren't seen to have the same culture, and identified as "greeks" or "Hellinistic people" if you perfer do to there "barbarian" like culture.

I would prefer sparta. Nice to see so many fellow greeks here, I never knew that there were any here. I am sorry i can´t write in Elinika, don´t have the keyboard installed with Helenic.

Would be nice to know from where in Hellas you are from?

I am from Karditsa, do you know where it is?

Anyone that thinks macedonia is something else then Helenic is either biased or missinformed possibly delusional.

Do you actually think that you know better than the Hellenics  themselves about the Hellenic historical heritage?

I try to not use the word greek since it´s the turks slave name for Hellnic citizens.

 I believe what i've read of Plutarch and other historians who weren't embroiled in any silly land disputes.  The only "proof" that the Macedonians came from greek is Alexander I's word on the matter.  While the opinions of those who had to deal with him and the other macedonians seemed to think otherwise.

Then you really need to read your history books again and see to it that they are translated properly or learn the Hellenic language and read for your self.

 A lot of those comments about Macedonians not being greek stems from the fear that the political power would shift to Macedonia if they were widely accepted and if Macedoia actually would unite them.

History books are actually a horible source for history. At best they give a decent overview, but often have a great many number of inaccuracies due to poor fact checking, new evidence, politcal reasons and a number of other things. For example it's never mentioned that in the US revolutionary war the British abolished slavery and had the slaves fight in there armies while the south didn't let the US let blacks serve in the revolutionary war officially.

In other worlds the US winning the revolutionary war postponned slavery. (A war that the US didn't really have solid ground to fight on anway in my opinion.)

Best to go with dedicated books. Perhaps all the different Plutarch and other conteporary books i've read have been "mistranslated" in their talking and treating of macedonians as not greeks and barbarians. I find it hard to believe though since those translating would have no gain to it.

One interesting Alexander the Great fact by the way is that his rule didn't actually spread greek culture. Infact greek culture already spread to a number of areas alexander was given credit for "hellenizing" and infact may have retarded it's spread a bit.

For what it's worth i think Yugoslavia calling it's Macedonia is stupid. As I don't believe the Macedonians were slavs either.

As I said I simply that the Macedonians were seen as barbarians or at best semi-barbarians by the greeks who did not accept them in the same way they did each other. They did not see in Macedonia what Athens saw in Sparta and instead saw them as pretenders who adopted there culture. Every contemporary source i've seen has made this seem to be the case.

Had this continued for a while, one could argue that the Macedonians would of been assimilated by greek culture, but this was prevented when the Macedonians "unified" the greeks.

Full macedonian assimilation didn't take place until after the macedonians were defeated during the rise of the roman empire.

Keep in mind many greeks actually helped the Romans fell the Macedonians in the Macedonian wars. Not quite the thing you would expect the hellenistic people to do as many have mentioned they usually would work together vs outsiders.

It's not like Macedonia not being an ancient greek group really matters since during the periods after the macedonians have since assimilated into greek culture and are currently modern greeks, giving greeks the claim to anient macedonian hertiage as well.

It still doesn't make those ancient macedonians ancient greeks.

Of course I find the whole national pride thing kind of silly, as while history is important, i find heritage kind of stupid. You could be descended from every great man in the world, yet the only thing that is going to make you personally a great man is yourself.

As for the rest of it though, I'll wait for him to get the book and see what he thinks is mistranslated, and if he sees it as mistranslated perhaps i'll upack and look up the other books i've read and used on studies of Alexander the Great and the history of the region.

Great perspective about political issue on the matter of history i couldn't i agree with you more about the abuse that connects the political issues with Historic facts.

Macedonians were Dorians (Greek: Δωριεῖς, Dōrieis, singular Δωριεύς, Dōrieus) were one of three populations into which the ancient Greeks considered the population of Hellenes to have been divided. The Hellenes spoke Greek and were considered to be the Greeks, although the ancient Greek sources did recognize non-Hellenic populations residing among them.

Where they came from?

A man's name, Dōrieus, occurs in the Linear B tablets at Pylos, one of the regions invaded and subjected by the Dorians. Pylos tablet Fn867 records it in the dative case as do-ri-je-we, *Dōriēwei, a third or consonant declension noun with stem ending in w. An unattested plural, *Dōriēwes, would have become Dōrieis by loss of the w and contraction, but in the tablet, which is concerned with contribution of grain to a temple, it is simply a man's name.[6] Whether it had the ethnic meaning of "the Dorian" is unknown.
Greek spearman with the long upland spear.
Greek spearman with the long upland spear.

Julius Pokorny derives Dorian from dōris, "woodland" (which can also mean upland).[7] The dōri- segment is from the o-grade (either ō or o) of Indo-European *deru-, "tree". Dorian might be translated as "the country people", "the mountain people", "the uplanders", "the people of the woods" or some such appellation, which is eminently suitable to their reputed origin.

A second popular derivation was given by the French linguist, Émile Boisacq, from the same root, but from Greek doru, "spear" (which was wood); i.e., "the people of the spear" or "spearmen", emphasizing the warrior ferocity of the upland Dorians.

Uplands of Greece - the Pindus Mountains.

Though most of the Doric invaders settled in the Peloponnese, they also settled on Rhodes and in Asia Minor, where in later times the Dorian Hexapolis (the six Dorian cities) would arise: Halikarnassos (Halicarnassus) and Knidos (Cnidus) in Asia Minor, Kos, and Lindos, Kameiros, and Ialyssos on the island of Rhodes. These six cities would later become rivals with the Ionian cities of Asia Minor. The Dorians also invaded Crete. These origin traditions remained strong into classical times: Thucydides saw the Peloponnesian War in part as "Ionians fighting against Dorians" and reported the tradition that the Syracusans in Sicily were of Dorian descent.[31] Other such "Dorian" colonies, originally from Corinth, Megara, and the Dorian islands, dotted the southern coasts of Sicily from Syracuse to Selinus.

That are scientific facts accepted by the World. This facts are NOT personal opinions og Greek historians there are pure scientific facts by all the known historians in the world.

And about Hercules the Dorians as a tribe claimed heritage of Hercules not to be accepted in the Olympic games as they had already enslaved all the other Greek tribes like Ionian,Minoan,Mycenaean and after the enslaved war that Macedonians of King Philip the Second launched against other Hellenic tribes like Athenians,Spartans all Greeks had the same Heritage of Hercules and thats why they should stand united. Fact that all of them was Dorians because they claimed the heritage of Hercules even before Macedonia invaded Sparta and Athens the same Heritage said to be part of this other Hellenic Tribes.

The fact that they were claiming a heritage that was from a mythical figure that is a joke of course to us today but BEFORE 10.000 years was the best way to explain the same language,religion and cultural habits. This is so simple,its not a patriotic pride its not the great heritage of ancient Greeks(god knows how different we are now) its just a scientific fact.

Alexander the Philelline??????? Where the F...K did you read that??? OMG!
Pε μαγκες, την παλευετε και καθεστε και του απαντατε του καραγκιοζη? Ανακυκλωνει τα επιχειρηματα των σλαβων για μη ελληνικοτητα και μη σλαβικη προελευση, αλλα για αρχαια εντοπιοτητα. Ενταξει, πεσαμε σε μεταναστη σκοπιανο. Δεν ξερω τι αλλο να σκεφτω. Παντως ρε αδερφε Αkira, τι να πω χαρα στον κοπο σου και στην αντοχη σου. Και συγχαρητηρια για την πολυ εμπεριστατωμενη και νηφαλια σταση σου. Υποσυνειδητα, ηξερα οτι κανα flame θα ξεκινουσε αν ανεφερα τη Μακεδονια, αλλα δεν το φανταζομουνα και ετσι. Τι να του πεις του καραγκιοζη, οτι 300 μετρα απο το σπιτι μου στην περιοχη της Σιατιστας, εχω μακεδονικο ταφο με ελληνικες επιγραφες? Συν το γεγονος οτι κανεις τους δεν ξερει ποσο εθισμο εχουμε στην Ελλαδα με τις εμφυλιες συρραξεις και τους αλληλοσπαραγμους. Και το 1/10 των ελληνων βοηθουσε τους Γερμανους να φανε τους ανταρτες, τι παει να πει?

"Of course I find the whole national pride thing kind of silly, as while history is important, i find heritage kind of stupid. You could be descended from every great man in the world, yet the only thing that is going to make you personally a great man is yourself."
Σε αυτο, ο γελοιος εχει δικιο ως ενα σημειο, αλλα προφανως δε θα το ελεγε αυτο αν γεννιοταν σε ενα σππιτι με θεα την Ακροπολη, η αν η γιαγια στο χωριο του ειχε κηπο διπλα σε ενα μικρο Μακεδονικο θεατρακι (οπως η δικια μου η μακαριτισα, της το ξηλωσα βεβαια οταν πεθανε, αλλα και το αρχαιολογικο συμβουλιο μας εγραψε στα παπαρια του, ηταν φαινεται απασχολημενοι με τους αποχαρακτηρισμους του Ζαχοπουλου, χεχε..)