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Forums - Politics - Monarchy. Is it bad?

Pemalite said:

During World War 1 and 2 it was viewed by many Australians that... If Britain goes to war then so does Australia.

And the reverse was true too, if Australia goes to war then so does the UK. I think most in the UK would be the same today assuming you didn't go threatening NZ or Papa New Guinea.

After the Japanese had taken control of the Pacific and defeated the British at Singapore, for the first time it was seen that the British couldn't Protect us so we sought closer ties to the United states in preperation for a Japensese invasion that never happened. (It's argued that they couldn't, controlling a continent so vast would have required allot of resources.)


Over the next century the British started to make it's colonies more autonimous and independent, we became independent from the British in 1986.
Queen Elizibeth is still our Monarch but we no-longer have to answer to the British or the Queen.


After we became independent we tried to remove the Queen as our Monarch, however the population loves the queen and was thus retained as our Monarch.

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During this time Australia was discovering it's national image, it's rare to have a country that is under-pinned from so many racial backgrounds and history to actually get along and live together in peace, this was probably helped by Government policies pinning freedoms for everyone regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation.
 
Also, if you wish to look at the lowest-paid wages, Australia eclipses the British in those departments, the Americans to. Our Minimum wage is twice that of the US.
During the financial Crisis we were one of the only "advanced" economies to avoid recession; as we started creating stronger ties with China, we entered the financial crisis with money in the bank, not debt which probably helped us get around the worlds financial troubles with significant infrustructure spending to create jobs and not bailing out failing companies. - They were allowed to fail so that capatalism would continue to work and create new companies to create new jobs.

The surplus definitely helped. Bank of Australia is heavily invested in Europe, didn't you join the UK and the US Fed in lending Ireland a few billion? Your housing crash/downturn is just starting according to what my Australian friends say. It isn't the minimum wage or special rights for certain groups that made Australia prosperous.





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its hard to find a good monarch


as for the british,most people might not know that she sucks

do some research on anglo-american empire,rothschild,throne of david and you will find out



I'm not really sure what kind of angle you are trying to take with this. I really don't think you can attribute in full, or even a decent part, of a country's economical outcome over a period of time to its form of governement, especially if you are only accounting for its current standing. History has provided monarchical governments plenty of wealth and "superpower" status throughout history. I'm not sure what you mean by "why does it need a monarch or the rejection of one". A governmental change is most likely the cause of an economic change, not the specific government entirely. Rejection of a monarchy doesn't guarantee economic growth and neither does the injection of a monarchy in a depressed economy.

Maybe you are looking at this in the wrong way and creating conclusions based of your perception? You might find more enlightenment by studying individual governmental structures and their histories rather than trying to create a puzzle by fitting together pieces from various puzzles. Monarchies can be very efficient forms of government since the power is centralized, the problem lies in who runs it and the fact that power is switched over every so often because people die. Even the greatest ruler in the world could have a selfish cruel offspring. This applying only to inherited forms of monarchy. So monarchies tend to fluctuate. Republics (like Rome and the modern "Democratic" countries) tend to have a more stable development cycle which can provide a greater benefit and thus allow a country to last much longer than a monarchy, but even they aren't invincible and can still be taken down if the right circumstances occur. Even Rome understood the benefits of the monarchy structure and thus provided the ability for a Caesar to have full power, though they might have failed to place proper safe guards in.

I'm not sure if economy is the greatest factor in determining the benefits of a governmental structure. I think you are applying much too strong of a weight to that, especially if you don't consider countries that aren't "superpowers" or in the top tier of wealth, successful countries. I'd say "superpowers" are more like the freaks of economical strength, and they don't stay that way. It's kind of similar to how some people think that games that sold less than Call of Duty are failures, but its obvious that's not the case.



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Pyro as Bill said:
blkfish92 said:
Pyro as Bill said:
blkfish92 said:
We have to look back at the past to get some vague answers.


Most empires raped/pillaged/stole/enslaved before the British came along. The British empire actually aquired the CEO of the Dutch empire and let him run things based on mercantilsm instead of outright theft. Spain was the last example of an 'old' empire.

The french attempted empire but lost Canada and the US to either Brits or free USasians. The remnants of the french empire include such shiholes as the Ivory Coast and  other 'backward' african countries (no offence). The ex-British empire has Zimbabwe but people forget that Zimbabwe and the rest of the southern Africa continent was perfectly able to feed itself (and feed the rest of Africa) although credit should go the Dutch for this.


Well with Empires, wasn't it greed that made them destroy themeselves?


No, it was usually independence or a better empire that came along. I don't think British greed was why Australia wished to become independent.

Tea tax in America actually lowered taxes. It was the black market that was so upset and caused a tea-party.


Well then, nothing always works perfectly.



           

This is a poorly-veiled run of praise at Great Britain and societies that have marked off the British system, and what is critical to understand here is that keeping the monarchy is not the root cause here.

It really dates back to the Magna Carta, which freed Britain from the possibility of tyrannical monarchy and meant that British tradition, as opposed to traditional systems in other countries, were focused on keeping the balance between monarchy and nobility. This meant that the British system could better adapt to change over the years, and so radical revolution was rarely needed (though we do forget the Civil War here, don't we?), meaning that the British were able to adapt to modern systems without the system having to radicalize one way or another (towards reactionary Absolute Monarchy or into populism). This meant that Britain remained relatively stable through the upheavals of the industrial revolution in a way that almost no other country was able to do.

Though once again, we must remember that steps were taken in Britain to guarantee that the monarchy remained amicable to the will of the constituencies, as after the English Civil War or the Glorious Revolution

Chartism and the social contract are the key to British success, and the endurance of the monarchy is merely an extension of that.



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Wow, so much to say here.

1) Australia is a Monarchy.
2) France gave up its Monarchy long before the USA did.
3) The USA is far from the richest country per capita (i.e. the metric you used to compare Aus/Canada to the UK). There are 7 countries ahead of the USA including several monarchies - Qatar, Luxemburg, Norway, Brunei. That's right, 4 of the top 6 richest countries in the world are Monarchies.
4) The UK does not have 10 million higher pop than Aus+can, much closer to 5 million.



Pyro as Bill said:
blkfish92 said:
Pyro as Bill said:
blkfish92 said:
We have to look back at the past to get some vague answers.


Most empires raped/pillaged/stole/enslaved before the British came along. The British empire actually aquired the CEO of the Dutch empire and let him run things based on mercantilsm instead of outright theft. Spain was the last example of an 'old' empire.

The french attempted empire but lost Canada and the US to either Brits or free USasians. The remnants of the french empire include such shiholes as the Ivory Coast and  other 'backward' african countries (no offence). The ex-British empire has Zimbabwe but people forget that Zimbabwe and the rest of the southern Africa continent was perfectly able to feed itself (and feed the rest of Africa) although credit should go the Dutch for this.


Well with Empires, wasn't it greed that made them destroy themeselves?


No, it was usually independence or a better empire that came along. I don't think British greed was why Australia wished to become independent.

Tea tax in America actually lowered taxes. It was the black market that was so upset and caused a tea-party.

It wasn't just a tea tax Americans were upset about. It was a variety of taxes. I think the one that pissed off people the most was the Stamp tax. I think in the end, it was the whole "taxation without representation" thing that killed off America's attachement to Britain. The connection between the Empire and the colonies was no longer there and Americans did not feel bound to the King. This is why it wasn't okay for Britain to tax the Colonies, yet over 200 years later, states like Maryland can tax us to death and we're not rebelling against it (unless you count the people moving to neighboring Delaware).



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scottie said:
Wow, so much to say here.

1) Australia is a Monarchy.
2) France gave up its Monarchy long before the USA did.
3) The USA is far from the richest country per capita (i.e. the metric you used to compare Aus/Canada to the UK). There are 7 countries ahead of the USA including several monarchies - Qatar, Luxemburg, Norway, Brunei. That's right, 4 of the top 6 richest countries in the world are Monarchies.
4) The UK does not have 10 million higher pop than Aus+can, much closer to 5 million.

"GDP per capita" is not equal to income. Luxembourg's total, for instance, is vastly inflated for being a banking center for surrounding countries (so someone from Germany can nose into Luxembourg, conduct a financial transaction worth X, and leave, adding X to Luxembourg's GDP despite that person not being Luxembourgish)

Also 1776 is before 1789, the date of the first French Revolution.



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^ You're right about 2, whoops. Thought it was early 1800s for some reason.



It's only a good thing if the monarchy doesn't get in the way of democracy - in my opinion, the UK isn't a monarchy, but those African countries are, and it doesn't work well



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