Not sure I understand why you're voting for moreno here, despite how much argument you put up for him during the day, and despite some good reasoning as to his credibility now.

I've been doing some thinking about moreno and there's been some unanswerable, well, semi-unanswerable questions that have arisen. First:

Why did he claim to be a human? He was the very last person to claim. He must know the setup of portal and know that there's only 4 human characters. Waiting until the end gives the impression that he was waiting until the very end to see what everyone else had claimed. Given this motive, why draw attention to himself by claiming to be a fifth human? He thought he could get away with it? Wasn't paying attention? Laziness? And then why claim to be unnamed?

I can only imagine that the reason is because he is vanilla, and from his point of view, unnamed would logically mean vanilla, and given that most games are vanilla with a few roles, then there should have been at least one other unnamed. I don't think this is the case, though, it's likely that named characters are vanilla as well.

Given the input from everyone so far, I don't think there are any "unnamed" machines out there either.

Conversely, being who he says he is, is not evidence that he isn't mafia and he could potentially be a vanilla mafia thinking that there would be other vanilla unnamed townies.

In conclusion though, I think moreno may be a vanilla townie. I've been thinking about what to do with him, and honestly, I'd like to see him get some more experience. I'm thinking that a better vote may be for MG.

Wonk: no idea

So, between the 4 i'd be willing to lynch:

wonk, ff, linkz, mg, (barring moreno for now)

The first three are major contributors, so it wouldn't be too hard to figure out who is scum through dialogue.
I think MG is the most attractive lynch, imo.

vote: MG

@Bold: So we'd have another Stefl? The problem with that theory in my mind is that having no name as he puts it and thinking that others have no name; there would be zero reason to caution against typeclaims while mentioning how few characters there are.

I think it was FF that said I consider the claim itself as evidence against moreno. That's not the case. I think it's fake given the circumstances, but by itself I have no issue with it.

I think his interaction with prof is the only good thing he had going for him. THAT behavior does fit his claim and thinking everyone else would also be unnamed. It was illogical for a different reason(compared to behavior leading up to the claim) as I pointed out, but that wasn't scummy to me.

Anyway, glad you've relieved some of my doubts. It's still not a good enough explanation to me, but it seems like an honest effort to analyze it from both angles.

a good chunck of the reasons I am voting for him is the final paragragh. He didn't make the points I just made for him and he's now given up and gone lurking.

I'm surprised you are asking some of these questions NOW you pretty much called him out on many of those points before. Why such a big fllip from you? Especially now when he's given up and gone lurking?

I don't think it's considered flipping on day one. I'm simply looking at all the options.

In that post, I was just wondering why you defended him nearly the entire time, and even did so in the quoted post, but then cited him disappearing as being enough to substantiate a vote.

Just because I suspected someone of something, doesn't mean I can't suspect someone else for suspecting my unsuspecting suspect of being suspicious.

I like to look at people who agree and disagree with me. I've found sometimes that mafia will agree with me and defend me. I've also found mafia defending townies. Both of those points give me a reason to question your motivations, because, again, it's day one and I have nothing else to go on despite what seems to be the inevitable moreno lynch.

looking at all the options usually means, looking first then making judgment calls.

I had been looking at the option that you had first been ignoring and didn't see him as scum slipping as much as a townie who made many mistakes. However I do see him still as a potential liability and since he wasn't the one making the points I made and instead chose to lurk I feel it was best to vote him.

don't make arbitrary definitions to support your arguable point.

@2nd part.
Right, I agree. You made a lot of points on his behalf. That makes me wonder what your motivations are. He didn't defend himself, you defended him. Because of that, you had a change of heart, perhaps rethinking things. Correct? I did too using the same exact occurence that you used. The difference is, I'm over here looking at it, and you're over there.

One event, two re-examinations.

don't claim to look at all the options when your actions show you didn't

I hardly call what I did until the end defending moreno. I thought he was being bad as town until he became untollerable and I voted for him. Mine was slow progession towards a vote.

You flipped from thinking him scum to thinking him town not bu any changes he made but by looking at things again. Options you should have looked at before.

if he is investigated. Is that so hard to udnerstand?

Trying to set you up? I have no real evidence. Why are you freaking out, linkz? Hmmm?

Dude, you said "killed at night" when one of the options I listed was "confirmed" innocent aka scanned. The former IS laughable. The latter is reasonable. We both know it's not damning evidence, but to some it might be enough. Everyone is quick to preach caution, but I've been killed in day phases before getting a word in too many times. I could see you trying to herd the sheep into mislynching me if the situation were right, so consider it a proactive defense against a possibility rather than reactive anger at a bad town. If I thought it were likely my vote would be on you, but as unlikely as it may be there's no reason not to point it out.