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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS Vita vs iPhone 4S vs 3DS

jacks81x on 22 February 2012
RolStoppable said:
jacks81x said:
RolStoppable said:

High sales are a sign of consumer satisfaction. Good word of mouth and all that. A lack of quality would have a negative effect on word of mouth.

And yes, I know what consumers think of Vita: Wait for a price drop and better games coming out. If it were different, then sales would have stabilized at a higher point in Japan. There's no reason to believe that it will be any different in America and Europe. It's only a matter of weeks until you will be able to see it.

Not necessarily true.  A lot of factors contribute to high sales, including smart marketing and hype.  That's mainly the reason why me, and many of my friends and family bought a Wii early on.  I can tell you for a fact that most of us are not satisfied customers, given the lack of quality games and the short-lived fad of motion control gaming.  My Wii has been collecting dust in my basement for more than a year.   

Marketing and hype doesn't last for several years. If the majority of people thought the same way about the Wii as you, sales would have collapsed a lot sooner.

"My Wii is collecting dust" is a common comment on the internet, but the online communities only represent a small minority of the market. That's why forum talk and actual sales can have such huge discrepancies.

 

Exactly, it has died down after the first year.  The PS3 and 360 have been outselling the Wii globally for a while now.  

Yes, the online community is a minority, but as I pointed out, actual sales does not = customer satisfaction.  In my family alone we have 6 Wii's.  I'm the only one who is part of the online community.  The other 5 Wii's belong to my parents, my in-laws, my wife's grandparents, my sister, and my nephew.  Outside of maybe my nephew who now plays mostly his 360, I don't think any of them have turned on the Wii more than 10 times total if I had to guess.  



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yinkadare on 22 February 2012
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 



yinkadare on 22 February 2012
jacks81x said:
RolStoppable said:
jacks81x said:
RolStoppable said:

High sales are a sign of consumer satisfaction. Good word of mouth and all that. A lack of quality would have a negative effect on word of mouth.

And yes, I know what consumers think of Vita: Wait for a price drop and better games coming out. If it were different, then sales would have stabilized at a higher point in Japan. There's no reason to believe that it will be any different in America and Europe. It's only a matter of weeks until you will be able to see it.

Not necessarily true.  A lot of factors contribute to high sales, including smart marketing and hype.  That's mainly the reason why me, and many of my friends and family bought a Wii early on.  I can tell you for a fact that most of us are not satisfied customers, given the lack of quality games and the short-lived fad of motion control gaming.  My Wii has been collecting dust in my basement for more than a year.   

Marketing and hype doesn't last for several years. If the majority of people thought the same way about the Wii as you, sales would have collapsed a lot sooner.

"My Wii is collecting dust" is a common comment on the internet, but the online communities only represent a small minority of the market. That's why forum talk and actual sales can have such huge discrepancies.

 

Exactly, it has died down after the first year.  The PS3 and 360 have been outselling the Wii globally for a while now.  

Yes, the online community is a minority, but as I pointed out, actual sales does not = customer satisfaction.  In my family alone we have 6 Wii's.  I'm the only one who is part of the online community.  The other 5 Wii's belong to my parents, my in-laws, my wife's grandparents, my sister, and my nephew.  Outside of maybe my nephew who now plays mostly his 360, I don't think any of them have turned on the Wii more than 10 times total if I had to guess.  


Yea, that's pretty much what I think as well.  I'm part of a video game club in my school.  I would say that most of the 50+ members have a Wii, but I don't know anyone who still consistently plays it.  It was kinda cool in the beginning because of the whole motion control thing, but after a while it just got boring.  It really didn't live up to the hype imo. 



NintendoPie on 22 February 2012
pezus said:
yinkadare said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...  

It is because sales do = quality. If something wasn't selling well it would most likely be due to lack of quality.



yinkadare on 22 February 2012
NintendoPie said:
pezus said:
yinkadare said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...  

It is because sales do = quality. If something wasn't selling well it would most likely be due to lack of quality.


I don't have a Ferrari.  It has nothing to do with quality.  I simply can't afford it. 

McDonalds sells more food than any other restaurant in the world.  Would you say that the quality of McDonald's food is the best in the world then?



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Mr Khan on 22 February 2012

ITT: people dig up 2007-2008 era anecdotal arguments against the Wii...



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

NintendoPie on 22 February 2012
yinkadare said:
NintendoPie said:
pezus said:
yinkadare said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...  

It is because sales do = quality. If something wasn't selling well it would most likely be due to lack of quality.


I don't have a Ferrari.  It has nothing to do with quality.  I simply can't afford it. 

McDonalds sells more food than any other restaurant in the world.  Would you say that the quality of McDonald's food is the best in the world then?

You quoted the wrong person.



NintendoPie on 22 February 2012
pezus said:
NintendoPie said:
pezus said:
yinkadare said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...  

It is because sales do = quality. If something wasn't selling well it would most likely be due to lack of quality.

Why? There are millions of other factors that come into play. You're telling me that a movie such as Transformers is better than let's say Godfather/Pulp Fiction/etc? And they didn't have as big a box office because they lacked quality? 

I know there a several (not millions) of other factors but the one metioned by Rol and I is a big one. Why would anyone want to play a game thats just poorly made? It wouldn't sell well because people would be spreading how bad it is and then sales would drop dramatically. 



jacks81x on 22 February 2012
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
yinkadare said:

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...

Toyota makes good cars for a better price than BMW, that's why they sell more cars. Price is an important factor, because people consider what they get for how much they pay. The fundamental purpose of a car is to get from point A to point B and Toyota's cars do that job just fine.

You can expand this example by bringing Ferrari into the mix. Does this mean that BMW cars are of bad quality now? Certainly not.

Or to put in other words, I am not saying (and I haven't said) sales = quality, I am saying sustained sales indicate the level of consumer satisfaction.

Well, you just made my point.  The Wii does NOT have sustained sales.  Hence customers are NOT satisfied.  Even Iwata has come out and said he isn't happy with the sales of the Wii the past couple years.  



yinkadare on 22 February 2012
NintendoPie said:
pezus said:
NintendoPie said:
pezus said:
yinkadare said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:
pezus said:
RolStoppable said:

I mean just that. You simply shouldn't assume that a minor sample on the internet is representative of the real world. People get asked about their purchases and if it's worth to buy the thing in question. Or they talk about their purchases without being asked, because they think that they own something awesome. But good people don't tell their friends to spend money on something they aren't really happy with.

Right now in Japan many people aren't happy with their Vita, that's why hardly any good word of mouth spreads. The same thing happened to the 3DS about a year ago. But this is irrelevant for a comparison that looks at the current state of things.

In that case, consumer satisfaction for the Wii is low but that directly stems from a lack of appealing new games. Sales do not determine quality, quality determines sales.  So games is really the main factor here, and it is included above.  

You got that right about the Wii.

The problem with the games category in the article you posted is that it's just the opinon of one single person. Sales however, give us a chance to look at a more general consensus, because every sale represents a person.

This probably requires me to type out a pre-emptive argument when it comes to software sales. There needs to be a distinction made between impulse buy range and purchases that require consideration. So for example, a game like Angry Birds cannot be compared equally to a 3DS/Vita retail game. That's obvious, but I always have to expect Joelcool7 reading my posts.

I simply disagree with you. Things can be utter crap but still sell very well. The correlation between sales and quality is random at best.

I agree with you.  I don't think most people would say that Toyota makes better cars than BMW because they sell more cars than BMW does. 

Yes, a very good point. But Rol keeps thinking sales = quality so...  

It is because sales do = quality. If something wasn't selling well it would most likely be due to lack of quality.

Why? There are millions of other factors that come into play. You're telling me that a movie such as Transformers is better than let's say Godfather/Pulp Fiction/etc? And they didn't have as big a box office because they lacked quality? 

I know there a several (not millions) of other factors but the one metioned by Rol and I is a big one. Why would anyone want to play a game thats just poorly made? It wouldn't sell well because people would be spreading how bad it is and then sales would drop dramatically. 

Nobody said the Wii was poorly made, but a game console is useless without the games.  The Wii has not released many quality games the past few years.  So even if I want to play it, I can't coz there are no games worth buying.