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Forums - Politics Discussion - American Government health spending seen hitting $1.8 trillion

SamuelRSmith said:
scottie said:
spurgeonryan said:

"To prevent that outcome, policymakers will have to ... raise revenues above their historical share of GDP.


I find that hard to believe, I suspect that when income tax capped out at 94%, there would have been higher revenues as a share of GDP.

 



 

I'm all in favor of a simplified tax code, the main problem with the American tax code is that it is complicated enough that only the rich can find the right loopholes.

 

As for low taxes leading to growth, I'm going to put a big [citation needed] sign right there.



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scottie said:
spurgeonryan said:

"To prevent that outcome, policymakers will have to ... raise revenues above their historical share of GDP.


I find that hard to believe, I suspect that when income tax capped out at 94%, there would have been higher revenues as a share of GDP.

 

 

You'd think that... yet you'd be wrong.

 

Tax Revenue is essentially the same no matter what.  Really it only goes down in times of recession ironically.



scottie said:
spurgeonryan said:

"To prevent that outcome, policymakers will have to ... raise revenues above their historical share of GDP.


I find that hard to believe, I suspect that when income tax capped out at 94%, there would have been higher revenues as a share of GDP.

 

 

Not quite.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Yowzaaa!! They better get that looked at. That is in no way sustainable.



Haha, 3 identical responses, can we leave it at that without a 4th? :P



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mrstickball said:
Argh_College said:
sethnintendo said:

That is what you get with most of the population fat and unhealthy.  Relying on prescription drugs rather than address the real problem.  Americans have become too lazy and will take a cure all pill for anything even though that pill is only hiding symptoms (and probably causing more problems).  Too bad the only way to really address it is with a lifestyle change.  Eating as little processed foods as possible and rarely going to fast food is a start.  Eating what you are supposed to goes a long way.  If you eat shit then you will probably become shit.  You are what you eat.

Thats nor just a US problem but WW.

Well i guess you´re right but most people are lazy and like to eat shit and drink alot. I dont think we can do anything about it...

Sure you can.

It'll have everyone screaming bloody murder in the streets.

Its called "Letting Darwin Do His Thing"

Cut off all subsidies. All freebies. Make people pay for their care, or go to a charity that can help them with their problem on a case-by-case basis. Then, if someone wants to eat cheetoes for lunch and have Mt. Dew for dinner, or have unprotected, STD-ridden sex all the time, they are free to do it. But if they won't get a free ride. In one generation, you'd have all the lazy, (physically) useless people gone, and the ones that survived knowing what it takes to live life proper and in good health. Not because its just the right thing to do, but its the most affordable way to go.

Of course, such a method requires smaller government and a responsible populace. Those are the core reasons we have the problems we do today.

Christ that's extreme, and disgusting. Things like that are exactly the reason why I despise the extreme libertarian point of view.

 

The core problems with Americas healthcare system aren't down to the fact that the government is involved, otherwise other countries with socialised healthcare (ie. pretty much the entire developed world) would have the same problems.

Americas healthcare system is plainly fucked, the rest of the worlds is not. This can be basically seen in this graph.



Rath said:
mrstickball said:
Argh_College said:
sethnintendo said:

That is what you get with most of the population fat and unhealthy.  Relying on prescription drugs rather than address the real problem.  Americans have become too lazy and will take a cure all pill for anything even though that pill is only hiding symptoms (and probably causing more problems).  Too bad the only way to really address it is with a lifestyle change.  Eating as little processed foods as possible and rarely going to fast food is a start.  Eating what you are supposed to goes a long way.  If you eat shit then you will probably become shit.  You are what you eat.

Thats nor just a US problem but WW.

Well i guess you´re right but most people are lazy and like to eat shit and drink alot. I dont think we can do anything about it...

Sure you can.

It'll have everyone screaming bloody murder in the streets.

Its called "Letting Darwin Do His Thing"

Cut off all subsidies. All freebies. Make people pay for their care, or go to a charity that can help them with their problem on a case-by-case basis. Then, if someone wants to eat cheetoes for lunch and have Mt. Dew for dinner, or have unprotected, STD-ridden sex all the time, they are free to do it. But if they won't get a free ride. In one generation, you'd have all the lazy, (physically) useless people gone, and the ones that survived knowing what it takes to live life proper and in good health. Not because its just the right thing to do, but its the most affordable way to go.

Of course, such a method requires smaller government and a responsible populace. Those are the core reasons we have the problems we do today.

Christ that's extreme, and disgusting. Things like that are exactly the reason why I despise the extreme libertarian point of view.

 

The core problems with Americas healthcare system aren't down to the fact that the government is involved, otherwise other countries with socialised healthcare (ie. pretty much the entire developed world) would have the same problems.

Americas healthcare system is plainly fucked, the rest of the worlds is not. This can be basically seen in this graph.

 

So then, please give me an exact dissertation as to why our health care is so expensive, and what can be done to directly lower costs. I've already given my answer(s) as to why our system is so expensive, and I'd like to hear your reasons as well.

As for the extreme nature of a libertarian system: Just remember that prior to social medicine, hospitals still existed. My contention is that if the government weren't taking 3.5% of every American's money for Medicare, and loosened regulations up, cost of care would plummet, and the better off would give charitable contributions to hospitals for those unable to pay.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Rath said:
mrstickball said:
Argh_College said:
sethnintendo said:

That is what you get with most of the population fat and unhealthy.  Relying on prescription drugs rather than address the real problem.  Americans have become too lazy and will take a cure all pill for anything even though that pill is only hiding symptoms (and probably causing more problems).  Too bad the only way to really address it is with a lifestyle change.  Eating as little processed foods as possible and rarely going to fast food is a start.  Eating what you are supposed to goes a long way.  If you eat shit then you will probably become shit.  You are what you eat.

Thats nor just a US problem but WW.

Well i guess you´re right but most people are lazy and like to eat shit and drink alot. I dont think we can do anything about it...

Sure you can.

It'll have everyone screaming bloody murder in the streets.

Its called "Letting Darwin Do His Thing"

Cut off all subsidies. All freebies. Make people pay for their care, or go to a charity that can help them with their problem on a case-by-case basis. Then, if someone wants to eat cheetoes for lunch and have Mt. Dew for dinner, or have unprotected, STD-ridden sex all the time, they are free to do it. But if they won't get a free ride. In one generation, you'd have all the lazy, (physically) useless people gone, and the ones that survived knowing what it takes to live life proper and in good health. Not because its just the right thing to do, but its the most affordable way to go.

Of course, such a method requires smaller government and a responsible populace. Those are the core reasons we have the problems we do today.

Christ that's extreme, and disgusting. Things like that are exactly the reason why I despise the extreme libertarian point of view.

 

The core problems with Americas healthcare system aren't down to the fact that the government is involved, otherwise other countries with socialised healthcare (ie. pretty much the entire developed world) would have the same problems.

Americas healthcare system is plainly fucked, the rest of the worlds is not. This can be basically seen in this graph.

 

So then, please give me an exact dissertation as to why our health care is so expensive, and what can be done to directly lower costs. I've already given my answer(s) as to why our system is so expensive, and I'd like to hear your reasons as well.

As for the extreme nature of a libertarian system: Just remember that prior to social medicine, hospitals still existed. My contention is that if the government weren't taking 3.5% of every American's money for Medicare, and loosened regulations up, cost of care would plummet, and the better off would give charitable contributions to hospitals for those unable to pay.


Once again socialised systems exist (and are universal) in many countries which have far lower healthcare costs than America.

Americas costs come from quite a few angles - the influence that big pharma is allowed to have with doctors (including things like kickbacks), how easily and often doctors can be sued for malpractice and how long it takes for doctors to become fully qualified. It's not as easy to fix as letting the poor people who don't really matter die.



Rath said:


Once again socialised systems exist (and are universal) in many countries which have far lower healthcare costs than America.

Americas costs come from quite a few angles - the influence that big pharma is allowed to have with doctors (including things like kickbacks), how easily and often doctors can be sued for malpractice and how long it takes for doctors to become fully qualified. It's not as easy to fix as letting the poor people who don't really matter die.

Additionally, the United States is very hard to compare to small-sized European nations for a variety of reasons.  Americans lifestyle choices,  General Land Mass Size,  Best 'emergency' services in the world, American culture.  Some other things to consider would be a much larger sheer amount of eldery (Even if the percentages are comparable)  when this is  mixed in with the above factors such as Lifestyle, Distance. You have an unhealthier population of eldery. 

And while it is advertised as all well and good everywhere that Universal healthcare systems exist elsewhere are not all roses and perfection.  Doctors in Germany have talked about striking, they've increased costs due to budget issues and a wide array of issues.  One of the primary factors for their cheaper healthcare is the amount they pay their doctors.  The problem with that is inevitably it takes the motivation from practicing medicine in Germany.  Other places (Like Canada) getting simple treatments can take a lot longer than it would in the United States.
 



Rpruett said:
Rath said:
 


Once again socialised systems exist (and are universal) in many countries which have far lower healthcare costs than America.

Americas costs come from quite a few angles - the influence that big pharma is allowed to have with doctors (including things like kickbacks), how easily and often doctors can be sued for malpractice and how long it takes for doctors to become fully qualified. It's not as easy to fix as letting the poor people who don't really matter die.

Additionally, the United States is very hard to compare to small-sized European nations for a variety of reasons.  Americans lifestyle choices,  General Land Mass Size,  Best 'emergency' services in the world, American culture.  Some other things to consider would be a much larger sheer amount of eldery (Even if the percentages are comparable)  when this is  mixed in with the above factors such as Lifestyle, Distance. You have an unhealthier population of eldery. 

And while it is advertised as all well and good everywhere that Universal healthcare systems exist elsewhere are not all roses and perfection.  Doctors in Germany have talked about striking, they've increased costs due to budget issues and a wide array of issues.  One of the primary factors for their cheaper healthcare is the amount they pay their doctors.  The problem with that is inevitably it takes the motivation from practicing medicine in Germany.  Other places (Like Canada) getting simple treatments can take a lot longer than it would in the United States.
 

I'm not going to pretend that socialised medicine would suddenly cure all of Americas ills or that it works perfectly everywhere and every time its implemented - I'm just pointing out that socialized medicine isn't an idea that by its very nature will bankrupt a nation.

It also seems to me that Americas current system is broken and costing the nation far too much - that high a percentage of GDP should not be spent on healthcare.