It still stings. I don't think I'm mentally prepared to play another mafia game for a while.

Wow.. thinking about it further, if the survivor doesn't shoot mafia, then town pretty much has to go perfect in lynches to win.

...So... host a round? ^_^

I'm anxious to offer horrible advice, so that people can do the opposite and thus a successful outcome.

hmm, well it is my turn to host. I guess I can get the sign up thread up in the next two days and start the game next week.

The game really wasn't about "punishing" town.

Each side had pros and cons.

Daniel was an unknown survivor simply to help town survive a bit longer in the case that the vig has a shot at the end.

Town had a watcher, a cop, and a semi investigative role (trisha), on top of a perma-doc on wonk, and a jailkeeper.

the trisha role would've just outed roles in a non-condemning way, for instance, calling vette just a roleblocker, mafia goon and godfather just mysterious sheep.
innocent cop still scans correctly 75% of the time. Cop can easily find the differences.

Town had a lot of ways to stay alive.

It started as 10 town vs 3 mafia vs 1 survivor.
mafia games should always be somewhat 3 town to every one mafia. So, town had one extra player, and the unknown survivor would ensure that he goes after mafia while at the same time giving town a last chance (even if the shot is already gone, it could've been saved).

So, basically two extra townies means that town needs to lose two members easily, hence sisters and princess. That makes the game even at a basic level. Sisters is a direct loss of a townie, while princess at the least gives the possibility for town to still use their powers, and get two investigations, two watches, two jailkeeps, 2 reports. So it's not just removing two townies, but doing so in a way that is still possibly beneficial, and even rounding off the offset missed day by giving town a vig.

Then town has the chance to "gain" a townie back by simply killing trucks. (which makes me wonder that if radish was scanned innocent, and is basically known to be a godfather, then why not kill the person who was actually scanned guilty whom is most likely some kind of vote blocker? It was simply bad logic that wonk never has a vote, rather than thinking that mafia is vote blocking him. The same situation could result from a vote-blocker blocking the same person over and over)

Further, the players with obvious roles, like hat, ff, baal, etc are more likely to be active or say things that might be questionable, so it should be understood that wonk SHOULD be quoting them. That would lead to him basically "letting down" only vanilla sheep, or at the least only letting down non-participators.

In best case scenario, town could've won by day 2, and a reasonable scenario, day 3-4.
The game was not about punishing town, but town certainly did punish themselves by going after players who are siblings, going after a princess, etc.
On top of that, players were allowed to pm-quote, yet those people in trouble didn't do so, and a sibling didn't even help out his other sibling. This was not punishment, this was simply not trying. A lot of not-trying on the town side, further evidenced by the lack of posting post day 2.

And you think town was in trouble? Read the mafia thread. They felt doomed the entire game. Even with the siblings and princess they were like "we were never going to win". So I'm sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree that town was unfavored. Town had three investigative roles and two docs.

and if It weren't the kill my character had that no one knew about town would have won. So fo me te only thing I really didnt' like was how swingy an unknow passive power made the game.

Now was that part of my role supposed to kill every 2 nights? or just once total. If you had planned on it beign every 2 nights you not following through with that made it much closer than it would have been.

I don't think you guys understand what swingy means.

Swingy means the entire momentum of the game can be changed more easily than a normal game. That is not true for what happened this game. The game was always just "more balanced than you thought it was". Look, you guys lynched siblings AND princess AND an innocent cop. How you could think that such actions were not to the benefit of mafia is just not looking at the game properly. The game was in mafia's favor as soon as you decided to lynch siblings, moreso when you decided to lynch a princess, and even more so every time you lynched a townie. That's how the game works. When town is lynched, it benefits mafia, when mafia is lynched it benefits town.

As I already explained, it was meant to be every two nights, but due to your lack of quoting, and my entire stance on "freedom", I couldn't rightly kill anyone.

Think about it as if you were a serial killer who could kill every two nights. Would that be a swingy game? Unlikely. Did town have every tool it needed to beat the mafia? Yes. Did mafia have every tool it needed to beat the town? Yes.

Swingy is a role that instantly can destroy the chances of a team. Your role was not such a role because you were a balancing role. You were a blance to the roles that town had because it was likely that mafia would lose kills due to two docs, and could easily be discovered given so many investigative roles. Furthermore, there were two role blockers who could potentially block your ability. Shit, even Hat might have been able to figure out your hidden role once the flavor happened.

"1. The Importance of Certain Roles

Essentially in the quest for balance moderators will add roles and take others away. This part of swinginess where all the balance is put onto the shoulders of one (or a few) certain role whose death could be expected to be rather disastrous for their team. The best example of this type of swing would be the mountainous set ups where it’s a twelve player game and half of the scum’s power is given to one Mafiaso (and the other half to his partner).

2. Gaps between Success and Failure

I’m going to focus on power roles here. Individual power roles may have night choices and things result from those night choices. Swinginess sets in where the moderator cannot plan for those night choices and what their results are. The greater the gap between the best and worst choices or how those results differ from the expected result the bigger the swing.

The best example of this type of swing would be the Vig who with a successful vig can take out a scum member without breaking a sweat but at his worst he can cause the town to lose a powerful power role. This is in contrast with Gunsmith whose guilties are only marginally more powerful than their innocents.

3a. Unlikely Results with Individual Roles

This is where though role is expected to do one thing it could turn around and do another and differ from the script considerably. An example of this type of role can be found with the Bulletproof Townie where the odds are reasonably good that they won’t draw a significant number of nightkills. But the possibility of them doing it is there.

To go further along this road and to explain it clearer I should mention the difference between a One-Shot Cop and a Cop on this scale. A one-shot cop will be expected to fetch an innocent result and thus increases the swing due to the possibility of it hitting scum. A cop on the other hand is expected (due to sheer probability) to get a couple of scum if they live long enough and is thus less swingy on this measure.

3b. Unlikely Combinations

This is the big one and the one, which comes into my mind when I think of swinginess. Simply put it is the unlikely result where via a combination of night actions (and lynches) one side has either victory or is too close to it for where the game is on the number of day/night cycles. (Note that unlikely is a key word here, if its likely then it’s a problem with balance rather than swinginess.)

Possibly the best example of this is where multiple killing roles don’t leave a dent on the mafia but instead bring on Endgame earlier than it should happen."

The game wasn't swingy. Town sucked big time. Town lynched only one mafia nearly on the back of an investigation.

The game would've been swingy had I given Baal more shots. Baal could've single handedly won the game for town despite town playing like shit and getting themselves lynched.

You guys were able to quote your pm and none of you did in order to save yourselves. A sibling didn't even speak out to help his sibling.

And some things from the dead thread I wanted to comment on.
Linkz I didn't look up princess since Hat was one in your game a few rounds back. I could have mentioned what the role is for the rest of the town though.

Prof. I can see how you would think my having everyone name and roleclaim could have hurt me. If the scum team were to have figured MG is why they weren't able to kill me. However the thing that really doomed me and all the town was my third passive ability.

Swingy means the entire momentum of the game can be changed more easily than a normal game.


Had my role not killed MG the town would have won. If a passive role can swing the results of the game, I call it swingy.
Now I'll read the rest of the post.

what you fail to understand is that the entire momentum of the game was not on the tipping point at N5.

The game was in mafia favor Day 1 when you guys lynched siblings and got progressively more favorable for mafia as the game went on. The game didn't hinge on your ability. The game hinged on you lynching all the wrong people. Only one mafia was lynched in 5 days. Strictly speaking, in a game of 9 vs 3, if one mafia was lynched every five days, mafia would win in 3.