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Forums - Gaming - Sony Encouraged By 3DS Sales

Khuutra on 13 January 2012
theprof00 said:
Khuutra said:


It's amazing how long you can go without answer a yes/no question.

Just to be clear: you are basing this discussion on a version of Call of Duty that is, at this point, vaporware. We have no idea how it will compare to the console versions, or even the DS/3DS versions. Claiming that this is indicative of a culture of wide-reaching support is fallacious to the point of self-deception.

Now answer the question in two words or less (elucidate thereafter if you feel the need):

Do you believe Call of Duty and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom will actually help Vita be more than the PSP was? Will they be enough?

Edit: Also the "PSP was never big in America because Western devs didn't support it" thing is not based on what we know of the handheld market; Western devs never supported the DS in a significant way eithe,r but the DS was huge in America. Western devs have never been a relevant force on handhelds outside of a very select few titles that have never affected the handhelds in a major way.

1. I cannot answer your question in a way that would be honest to the discussing because you are intentionally boiling it down to 2 specific instances, which was not my point. I stated before that it was a foundation. To answer your incredibly cherry picked scenario, yes, then no. Yes, MVC and CoD will very much help the vita exceed the psp. No, two games are not enough to make a console.

Look, I understand that you're "attempting" to take the "safe" route. However, the arguments you've posed (ie; the failsafes) say both that western gaming perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld, and that a system that is meant to be a virtually portable version of the ps3 itself, is not going to have a near ps3 level version of the same franchise's titular game.

Sorry, but your assumptions fall very much far from the inherent logic behind it. But hey, it may turn out you are right in the end. I'm not going to say that I'm completely right, but this is simply both a logical conclusion and a boistrous outpouring of excitement. Do you also think MvC is going to be different?

In the end, your "safe" arguments really only come off as arguing without having an argument, which is - disturbing.

I argue because I can see the possibility. You argue because you're unclear if western games will work on a console? Or was it that a game called call of duty might not be call of duty at all?

EDIT: You also didn't aska yes/no question.

"Perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld"? I've claimed nothing of the sort. All I'm pointing out is that Western development, or the lack thereof, cannot be the reason for a handheld's failure, because no handheld has ever had Western support on the development side. You claimed that the PSP was not big in America due to lack of Western support, which isn't an argument that holds up under any level of scrutiny. Similarly, it is fallacious to assume that Western support will mean success in the West, just like it's fallacious to assume that Call of Duty is indicative of a larger trend that will be set for other developers.

You're referring to "inherent logic" without actually laying out what that logic is, or how you managed to apply this unexplained logic to reach a conclusion. If it's based ont he idea that Western development is necessary for success in the West, we know this is untrue, so that can't be what you mean. What, then, are you talking about?

I'm not claiming Vita won't be successful long-term. It may well be. I am simply saying that as of now we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Western development will have anything to do with its success, and your own excitement has exactly nothing to do with it.



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makingmusic476 on 13 January 2012

I like Sony's optimism, and I like the Vita itself. It's a damn good piece of hardware, and I very much intend to buy one at some point.

However, I can't see the device doing all that well. Ultimately, they're entering a market that's being squeezed fairly tight by other mobile devices, and they're coming in a year later and far more expensive than their primary competitor. They've also lost their one killer app, while their chief competitor has already released two of their own.

Call of Duty has the potential to do well in the West, but I don't believe the Call of Duty market is the type that'd really go for a dedicated handheld gaming device. Plus, we've have no information on the game other than its initial announcement.



makingmusic476 on 13 January 2012
Khuutra said:

"Perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld"? I've claimed nothing of the sort. All I'm pointing out is that Western development, or the lack thereof, cannot be the reason for a handheld's failure, because no handheld has ever had Western support on the development side. You claimed that the PSP was not big in America due to lack of Western support, which isn't an argument that holds up under any level of scrutiny. Similarly, it is fallacious to assume that Western support will mean success in the West, just like it's fallacious to assume that Call of Duty is indicative of a larger trend that will be set for other developers.

You're referring to "inherent logic" without actually laying out what that logic is, or how you managed to apply this unexplained logic to reach a conclusion. If it's based ont he idea that Western development is necessary for success in the West, we know this is untrue, so that can't be what you mean. What, then, are you talking about?

I'm not claiming Vita won't be successful long-term. It may well be. I am simply saying that as of now we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Western development will have anything to do with its success, and your own excitement has exactly nothing to do with it.


I actually think one could make the case that the PSP had more western support than any previous handheld.

Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Fifa, Need for Speed, Socom, and so on.

Edit:

Well, I suppose the original GameBoy had a similar level of support, ignoring Sony's western studios.



Khuutra on 13 January 2012
makingmusic476 said:
Khuutra said:

"Perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld"? I've claimed nothing of the sort. All I'm pointing out is that Western development, or the lack thereof, cannot be the reason for a handheld's failure, because no handheld has ever had Western support on the development side. You claimed that the PSP was not big in America due to lack of Western support, which isn't an argument that holds up under any level of scrutiny. Similarly, it is fallacious to assume that Western support will mean success in the West, just like it's fallacious to assume that Call of Duty is indicative of a larger trend that will be set for other developers.

You're referring to "inherent logic" without actually laying out what that logic is, or how you managed to apply this unexplained logic to reach a conclusion. If it's based ont he idea that Western development is necessary for success in the West, we know this is untrue, so that can't be what you mean. What, then, are you talking about?

I'm not claiming Vita won't be successful long-term. It may well be. I am simply saying that as of now we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Western development will have anything to do with its success, and your own excitement has exactly nothing to do with it.


I actually think one could make the case that the PSP had more western support than any previous handheld.

Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Fifa, Need for Speed, Socom, and so on.

Edit:

Well, I suppose the original GameBoy had a similar level of support, ignoring Sony's western studios.


No, I think you have a good point here. The PSP's western support was undoubtedly superior to the DS's, at least in terms of big-name games. I'd have to look at a list of the DS's top sellers to be sure.

And to the larger topic at hand: yes, the 3DS proves that there is sitll very much room for dedicated handheld devices, but that doesn't mean there is necessarily room for the Vita. I'm not saying there isn't: I'm saying the 3DS should not be a source of confidence to its own competitor.



theprof00 on 13 January 2012
Khuutra said:

"Perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld"? I've claimed nothing of the sort. All I'm pointing out is that Western development, or the lack thereof, cannot be the reason for a handheld's failure, because no handheld has ever had Western support on the development side. You claimed that the PSP was not big in America due to lack of Western support, which isn't an argument that holds up under any level of scrutiny. Similarly, it is fallacious to assume that Western support will mean success in the West, just like it's fallacious to assume that Call of Duty is indicative of a larger trend that will be set for other developers.

You're referring to "inherent logic" without actually laying out what that logic is, or how you managed to apply this unexplained logic to reach a conclusion. If it's based ont he idea that Western development is necessary for success in the West, we know this is untrue, so that can't be what you mean. What, then, are you talking about?

I'm not claiming Vita won't be successful long-term. It may well be. I am simply saying that as of now we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Western development will have anything to do with its success, and your own excitement has exactly nothing to do with it.

Sorry Khuttie baby, but it is your arguments which are phallacious.

Nintendo is the exception, not the rule, to the exemption your taking in my logic. You can't look at the DS and say, "The DS survived without western development". It survived because of Nintendo. Look at any Japanese games on the DS and just tell me how well they did in comparison to Nintendo games. I'll tell you. The only Japanese games that sell well in the US on handhelds are Nintendo first party games. 

Sony is not Nintendo. It needs western development, and hasn't had it until now...er shortly.

 

Oh, and sure, maybe you're right that western games will not appeal to the west at all. I strongly disagree.

 

 



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megaman79 on 13 January 2012

Remember when Sony said they wanted to work with Nintendo by introducing 3D Gaming to the masses?

And then they kicked the shit out of them a week later?

Oh Sony



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.

MontanaHatchet on 13 January 2012

Let's also consider the fact that the PSP had a LOT of initial hype. It was at a time when the DS was floundering, Sony ruled the market, and the Playstation line of products could do no wrong. The PSP launched to 400k in the U.S. alone and moved plenty of early games. It had its own South Park episode based on it. The Vita doesn't have any of these benefits and now its launching against the fastest selling system of all time.

The Vita is an incredible product and I believe it will do well, but I believe it will struggle against the 3DS for a while until it finds its niche. Hopefully Sony focuses on profitability and can at least view the Vita as a financial success.



 

 

theprof00 on 13 January 2012
Khuutra said:
makingmusic476 said:
Khuutra said:

"Perhaps doesn't have a place on a handheld"? I've claimed nothing of the sort. All I'm pointing out is that Western development, or the lack thereof, cannot be the reason for a handheld's failure, because no handheld has ever had Western support on the development side. You claimed that the PSP was not big in America due to lack of Western support, which isn't an argument that holds up under any level of scrutiny. Similarly, it is fallacious to assume that Western support will mean success in the West, just like it's fallacious to assume that Call of Duty is indicative of a larger trend that will be set for other developers.

You're referring to "inherent logic" without actually laying out what that logic is, or how you managed to apply this unexplained logic to reach a conclusion. If it's based ont he idea that Western development is necessary for success in the West, we know this is untrue, so that can't be what you mean. What, then, are you talking about?

I'm not claiming Vita won't be successful long-term. It may well be. I am simply saying that as of now we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Western development will have anything to do with its success, and your own excitement has exactly nothing to do with it.


I actually think one could make the case that the PSP had more western support than any previous handheld.

Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Fifa, Need for Speed, Socom, and so on.

Edit:

Well, I suppose the original GameBoy had a similar level of support, ignoring Sony's western studios.


No, I think you have a good point here. The PSP's western support was undoubtedly superior to the DS's, at least in terms of big-name games. I'd have to look at a list of the DS's top sellers to be sure.

And to the larger topic at hand: yes, the 3DS proves that there is sitll very much room for dedicated handheld devices, but that doesn't mean there is necessarily room for the Vita. I'm not saying there isn't: I'm saying the 3DS should not be a source of confidence to its own competitor.

Yes, greta points all around. Wetern development helped Sony move psp's in the west.

Case closed, let's all have a drink.



theprof00 on 13 January 2012
MontanaHatchet said:
Let's also consider the fact that the PSP had a LOT of initial hype. It was at a time when the DS was floundering, Sony ruled the market, and the Playstation line of products could do no wrong. The PSP launched to 400k in the U.S. alone and moved plenty of early games. It had its own South Park episode based on it. The Vita doesn't have any of these benefits and now its launching against the fastest selling system of all time.

The Vita is an incredible product and I believe it will do well, but I believe it will struggle against the 3DS for a while until it finds its niche. Hopefully Sony focuses on profitability and can at least view the Vita as a financial success.

But yet, the vita still sells units similarly to the psp. Sure it's under, but not by a lot.

PSP during DS flailing and PS domination sells 400k and goes on to 60m.

Vita during the strongest competitor ever during a time when PS is flailing, sells 380k adn goes on to sell ?



Roma on 13 January 2012
megaman79 said:
Remember when Sony said they wanted to work with Nintendo by introducing 3D Gaming to the masses?

And then they kicked the shit out of them a week later?

Oh Sony

when was that? do you have a link?



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(