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Forums - Gaming - In your opinion, have Japanese games as a whole fallen in quality in this gen?

Teo on 26 December 2011

Demon's Souls / Dark Souls > everything this gen so Japan already won.

but across the board? We have the Street Fighter IV series with the vs Tekken thing coming out next year to continue it's fighting genre dominance.

Nintendo has had both sales and critic success with milking Zelda and Mario.

Gran Turismo 5, a real driving simulator that sells a lot.

Monster Hunter dominating the handhelds.

What do western developers have to show for? FPS crap, overhyped Fable, (wannabe) Batman's Creed, and FPS RPG lolskyrim and lolfallout.

Little Big Planet is the only true western game that was innovative enough and fresh, so at the end it's LBP and Demon's Souls as the two games that make this generation from the two styles.



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KBG29 on 26 December 2011
DarkDesent666 said:
enrageorange said:
KBG29 said:
I believe its because of the shift away from exclusive development. Previously, most Japanese companies focused just on PS or just Nintendo products. Now they try to make stuff work across PS3, 360, Wii, PSP, DS, and in some cases PC.

The same thing has happened to western titles that have shifted to multi-platform. It is a huge sacrifice in quality, and soul of the game, but it makes for nice sales numbers.

This is why I call bullshit on competition helping us out. All I see competition doing is killing pinnacle game development. Consoles don't get pushed the way they did in the past, and PC's just get the same soulless product with higher res models.

So, so, so false. Explain to me, then why out of the top 10 hd games this generation, 9 are multiplatform on the 360 and 8 are multiplatform on the ps3. Explain to me why the new ips that will rememebered years from now are all multiplatform, except maybe gears of war and uncharted. Explain to me why the most creative games are all multiplatform. Making a game multiplatform has given developers a chance to try something new and unique and still achieve enough sales for a profit, something that has become alarmingly rare for exclusive titles to attempt. 

Someone needs to take a look at some ps3 exclusives.  3D dot game heroes, Demon souls, Valkyria chronciles, Heavy rain, Flower, Folklore, MAG. They are all new and unique  and none of them are multiplat. There's even more if you count the ones that are new and unique but totally suck in their own right. Infact from what I can tell multiplats more often then not play it more safe then exclusives do. Though I'd be lying if it didn't have it's share of unique of unique games. As for your point about "best" hd games I think it's pretty much as simple as a popularity contest and multiplats get more sales. 

Exactly what DarkDesent666 said.  

Sure Call of Duty and Assassins Creed have sold, millions have played them, but since when has that been a determiner of quality. I have always determined the quality of a game based on the game itself. I never use reviews, sales, developer, or publisher to determine a games quality. 

Onto the creativeness of games this gen. COD is easily one of the least creative games this gen. They made a couple of strides in multi-player, but not really anything different than what Halo 3 was doing. As far as theme and art direction,,,?

This is part of the pluses and minuses of the industries growth and acceptance. The Multi-platform titles are available across all platforms. They become part of pop culture, then they turn into a status symbol. Marketing pushes it to the point were they want other to expect you have their game. So even though you have tons of amazing titles coming out like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Flower, Madworld, Infamous, and more, these mediocre popular games get all the sales, and excitement. 

I am not saying that they are bad games, mind that. What I am saying is that they are cookie cutter. The gameplay works, technically they are par but nothing more, story wise they do nothing. In all reality the games biggest selling point is competition with friends. 

This is something that is available on nearly every game now days, and is nearly equal on all of them. The difference comes in much higher quality in all the spots I mentioned above, in exclusively developed software.

 



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DKHustlin on 26 December 2011
KBG29 said:

 

Exactly what DarkDesent666 said.  

Sure Call of Duty and Assassins Creed have sold, millions have played them, but since when has that been a determiner of quality. I have always determined the quality of a game based on the game itself. I never use reviews, sales, developer, or publisher to determine a games quality. 

Onto the creativeness of games this gen. COD is easily one of the least creative games this gen. They made a couple of strides in multi-player, but not really anything different than what Halo 3 was doing. As far as theme and art direction,,,?

This is part of the pluses and minuses of the industries growth and acceptance. The Multi-platform titles are available across all platforms. They become part of pop culture, then they turn into a status symbol. Marketing pushes it to the point were they want other to expect you have their game. So even though you have tons of amazing titles coming out like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Flower, Madworld, Infamous, and more, these mediocre popular games get all the sales, and excitement. 

 

I am not saying that they are bad games, mind that. What I am saying is that they are cookie cutter. The gameplay works, technically they are par but nothing more, story wise they do nothing. In all reality the games biggest selling point is competition with friends. 

This is something that is available on nearly every game now days, and is nearly equal on all of them. The difference comes in much higher quality in all the spots I mentioned above, in exclusively developed software.

 

 

 

it still amazes me how at the end of this gen some people still dont understand that people want to play games. story is a nonessential for a game. competition with friends is what sells because people (surprise) want to play a game with other people. video games are like board games to an extent, you dont need a board game that has a story, but they usually suck without people to play with.



Everyday I'm hustlin'.

 

Wii and DS owner.

oniyide on 26 December 2011

There are alot of reasons. For one Western devs have in there mind that they need to be like the eastern devs, which is stupid. I dont see western devs trying to be like the ones in the east. The frustrating thing is that the Japan devs have done great things. KH BBS, TWENY, FFtype 0 all good games, then they pull crap like FF13 & 14, SE is the worst because they got Eidos which was supposed to give them the western appeal and then they go around and still try to make there Japan games westernized?! Namco; not sure what the hell went wrong with Tekken6, but Tag2 looks good. Capcom, Pheonix Wright good, hell SF4 was great, but then they pull crap like UMvs.C3. Ninty and Sega do ok, Sonic has vastly improved and im loving the Yakuzas, they are true Japan games.
@DarkDescent, kinda make your argument moot, when half the games you listed arent even FROM Japan. Those are small fry games anywhere, where the hell is Versus 13?? Doesnt seem like exclusivity is helping that one.



jonager on 26 December 2011
DKHustlin said:
KBG29 said:

 

Exactly what DarkDesent666 said.  

Sure Call of Duty and Assassins Creed have sold, millions have played them, but since when has that been a determiner of quality. I have always determined the quality of a game based on the game itself. I never use reviews, sales, developer, or publisher to determine a games quality. 

Onto the creativeness of games this gen. COD is easily one of the least creative games this gen. They made a couple of strides in multi-player, but not really anything different than what Halo 3 was doing. As far as theme and art direction,,,?

This is part of the pluses and minuses of the industries growth and acceptance. The Multi-platform titles are available across all platforms. They become part of pop culture, then they turn into a status symbol. Marketing pushes it to the point were they want other to expect you have their game. So even though you have tons of amazing titles coming out like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Flower, Madworld, Infamous, and more, these mediocre popular games get all the sales, and excitement. 

 

I am not saying that they are bad games, mind that. What I am saying is that they are cookie cutter. The gameplay works, technically they are par but nothing more, story wise they do nothing. In all reality the games biggest selling point is competition with friends. 

This is something that is available on nearly every game now days, and is nearly equal on all of them. The difference comes in much higher quality in all the spots I mentioned above, in exclusively developed software.

 

 

 

it still amazes me how at the end of this gen some people still dont understand that people want to play games. story is a nonessential for a game. competition with friends is what sells because people (surprise) want to play a game with other people. video games are like board games to an extent, you dont need a board game that has a story, but they usually suck without people to play with.

actually i like to play single playing games.but probably iam not the rule, but the exception



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SnakeDrake on 26 December 2011

People trend to for get in this kind of discussions.
Japan = 1 country
Western = USA+Canada+Austria+New Zealand+the whole freaking Europe



 

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oniyide on 26 December 2011
BasilZero said:
oniyide said:
There are alot of reasons. For one Western devs have in there mind that they need to be like the eastern devs, which is stupid. I dont see western devs trying to be like the ones in the east. The frustrating thing is that the Japan devs have done great things. KH BBS, TWENY, FFtype 0 all good games, then they pull crap like FF13 & 14, SE is the worst because they got Eidos which was supposed to give them the western appeal and then they go around and still try to make there Japan games westernized?! Namco; not sure what the hell went wrong with Tekken6, but Tag2 looks good. Capcom, Pheonix Wright good, hell SF4 was great, but then they pull crap like UMvs.C3. Ninty and Sega do ok, Sonic has vastly improved and im loving the Yakuzas, they are true Japan games.
@DarkDescent, kinda make your argument moot, when half the games you listed arent even FROM Japan. Those are small fry games anywhere, where the hell is Versus 13?? Doesnt seem like exclusivity is helping that one.


SE tried to be most western with the purchase of Eidos but I think their gonna dig a even deeper grave for the Tomb Raider series.

SE did the worst I agree with you, capcom second xD

Namco's Tekken 6 was ok but it wasnt revolutionary like 5.

Sega was moderate in its games but they need to seriously shape up with the  Sonic series.

Nintendo's probably the only sane Eastern company (among Atlus, Nippon Icchi and all those other lesser known companies).


Actually i think TR looks good, Its not like SE has a hand in it directly, its still being done by Eidos. I like that SE lets them do their own thing. Hell Just Cause 2 was great IMHO.  They just need to get back to what they do and let Eidos handle the west. 

Scenario mode just pissed me off, whoever thought about that needs to be kicked in the balls and/or vagina. 

Sega was all over the place, but SOnic has vastly improved. Colors, Generations, All starts racing, Ds games all good. Even if one hated them, they cant be any worse than Sonic and the secret rings, o6 and unleashed

Ninty, i never saw them as a "Japan" company, region wise yes, but the games they make are not very japanese or western they trascend that, which is why they are able to rise above the SEs, Capcoms, etc. Mario's Italian for god's sake, DK is a gorilla, an African animal. Samus is a blonde chick, Link is...Link, the only game I can think of in their stable that is really Japanese is the S&P series and Xenoblade and maybe Fire Emblem. The lesser companies havent changed, we still get the Disgeas and what not



oniyide on 26 December 2011
jonager said:
DKHustlin said:
KBG29 said:

 

Exactly what DarkDesent666 said.  

Sure Call of Duty and Assassins Creed have sold, millions have played them, but since when has that been a determiner of quality. I have always determined the quality of a game based on the game itself. I never use reviews, sales, developer, or publisher to determine a games quality. 

Onto the creativeness of games this gen. COD is easily one of the least creative games this gen. They made a couple of strides in multi-player, but not really anything different than what Halo 3 was doing. As far as theme and art direction,,,?

This is part of the pluses and minuses of the industries growth and acceptance. The Multi-platform titles are available across all platforms. They become part of pop culture, then they turn into a status symbol. Marketing pushes it to the point were they want other to expect you have their game. So even though you have tons of amazing titles coming out like Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Flower, Madworld, Infamous, and more, these mediocre popular games get all the sales, and excitement. 

 

I am not saying that they are bad games, mind that. What I am saying is that they are cookie cutter. The gameplay works, technically they are par but nothing more, story wise they do nothing. In all reality the games biggest selling point is competition with friends. 

This is something that is available on nearly every game now days, and is nearly equal on all of them. The difference comes in much higher quality in all the spots I mentioned above, in exclusively developed software.

 

 

 

it still amazes me how at the end of this gen some people still dont understand that people want to play games. story is a nonessential for a game. competition with friends is what sells because people (surprise) want to play a game with other people. video games are like board games to an extent, you dont need a board game that has a story, but they usually suck without people to play with.

actually i like to play single playing games.but probably iam not the rule, but the exception

thats funny, Zelda, Mario, GTA, all single player affairs and they seem to be quite popular



DKHustlin on 26 December 2011
jonager said:
DKHustlin said:

it still amazes me how at the end of this gen some people still dont understand that people want to play games. story is a nonessential for a game. competition with friends is what sells because people (surprise) want to play a game with other people. video games are like board games to an extent, you dont need a board game that has a story, but they usually suck without people to play with.

actually i like to play single playing games.but probably iam not the rule, but the exception

thats fine, but even for singleplayer games its the games that focus on playing a game that do well, are popular, whatever you want to call it.



Everyday I'm hustlin'.

 

Wii and DS owner.

DarkDesent666 on 26 December 2011
oniyide said:
There are alot of reasons. For one Western devs have in there mind that they need to be like the eastern devs, which is stupid. I dont see western devs trying to be like the ones in the east. The frustrating thing is that the Japan devs have done great things. KH BBS, TWENY, FFtype 0 all good games, then they pull crap like FF13 & 14, SE is the worst because they got Eidos which was supposed to give them the western appeal and then they go around and still try to make there Japan games westernized?! Namco; not sure what the hell went wrong with Tekken6, but Tag2 looks good. Capcom, Pheonix Wright good, hell SF4 was great, but then they pull crap like UMvs.C3. Ninty and Sega do ok, Sonic has vastly improved and im loving the Yakuzas, they are true Japan games.
@DarkDescent, kinda make your argument moot, when half the games you listed arent even FROM Japan. Those are small fry games anywhere, where the hell is Versus 13?? Doesnt seem like exclusivity is helping that one.

That arguement was in responce to the guy saying multiplats are more new and unique my post before that was my arguement about japanese games, which if you read, you'd know I think have gone downhill, atleast bandai, capcom and especially square. Exclusivity with a big company doesn't really mean that much, the company has the money to make it about the same anyways, and no company (other then console makers) are going to take full advantage of a console.