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Forums - Sony Discussion - The heck, PS3 DMC4 requires 25 min hard drive installation?!

NJ5 on 07 January 2008

While it's not a big deal to be forced to install a game, there are definitely a few weird things going on here:


1- Why isn't installation optional?
2- Why is installation not allowed on the 360 (with the condition of having a HDD installed of course)?

I'd venture the following guesses:

1- It could be that some technical limitation of the PS3 made installation necessary. This indicates that data access speed was the blocking factor, due to for example one of the following limitations:

  • lower CPU RAM (the PS3 has 512 MB split equally between GPU and CPU while the 360 allows the developer to split the 512 MB as they wish).
  • PS3's Blu-Ray drive has a lower seek time than 360's DVD drive (the same reason why Bethesda replicated data multiple times on Oblivion's PS3 disc)

2- They didn't bother with implementing this feature.

 



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darendt on 07 January 2008

According to Capcom the PS3 version looks and runs better for one, and the fact that there are no load times is a definite plus. We don't know exactly how often or how long the load times are on the 360 version so we cant really say if its worth it or not. I know I would rather have a one time 25 min hit than a 2-3 min load screen every time I play or in between every level. For the space limited there is always the option of installing a bigger HDD. They aren't that expensive, and are readily available.



Stats87 on 07 January 2008
NJ5 said:

While it's not a big deal to be forced to install a game, there are definitely a few weird things going on here:


1- Why isn't installation optional?
2- Why isn't installation not allowed on the 360 (with the condition of having a HDD installed of course)?

I'd venture the following guesses:

1- It could be that some technical limitation of the PS3 made installation necessary. This indicates that data access speed was the blocking factor, due to for example one of the following limitations:

  • lower CPU RAM (the PS3 has 512 MB split equally between GPU and CPU while the 360 allows the developer to split the 512 MB as they wish).
  • PS3's Blu-Ray drive has a lower seek time than 360's DVD drive (the same reason why Bethesda replicated data multiple times on Oblivion's PS3 disc)

2- They didn't bother with implementing this feature.

  

 


 I to am confused as to why this isn't optional. I thought I read a preview where it was, but maybe I misread

As for the 360, maybe they took into consideration that there are a lot of 360 owners that have Core's and 20GB Premium's?



naznatips on 07 January 2008
darconi said:
@naz

Some of the positives are DLC. Being able to do some mini-expansions are nice and general online capability is nice (this is the first gen to really have it anywhere near what PC's do). And patches I see both as a good and bad thing. Sometimes you need the ability to do patches, no matter how much QA you do.

Unfortunately what I see right now is that consoles are bastardizing the PC and so combining the negatives of PCs (too many sku's, lack of simple plug/play) with the negatives of consoles (not as much customizing options, adding costs to free things on PC like xbox live, etc).

Downloadable Content is only a positive if it's free.  They could at least try to keep it reasonably priced (looking at you Halo 3).  I actually think console online capability is not only a large step below PC online capability but it's starting to try and infest the PC's online games with its crappiness (Windows Live). 



darconi on 07 January 2008
darendt said:
According to Capcom the PS3 version looks and runs better for one, and the fact that there are no load times is a definite plus. We don't know exactly how often or how long the load times are on the 360 version so we cant really say if its worth it or not. I know I would rather have a one time 25 min hit than a 2-3 min load screen every time I play or in between every level. For the space limited there is always the option of installing a bigger HDD. They aren't that expensive, and are readily available.

 Where is your source for that?  Capcom officials have said they actually look the same. 

And where do you possibly see that there is a 2-3 min load screen?  What if the difference is 5 second on 360 and 3 seconds on the PS3?  

Have you seen the Orange box videos?  The PS3 had a MASSIVE amount of load time in comparison.  

 

 

 

 



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darconi on 07 January 2008
naznatips said:
darconi said:
@naz

Some of the positives are DLC. Being able to do some mini-expansions are nice and general online capability is nice (this is the first gen to really have it anywhere near what PC's do). And patches I see both as a good and bad thing. Sometimes you need the ability to do patches, no matter how much QA you do.

Unfortunately what I see right now is that consoles are bastardizing the PC and so combining the negatives of PCs (too many sku's, lack of simple plug/play) with the negatives of consoles (not as much customizing options, adding costs to free things on PC like xbox live, etc).

Downloadable Content is only a positive if it's free. They could at least try to keep it reasonably priced (looking at you Halo 3). I actually think console online capability is not only a large step below PC online capability but it's starting to try and infest the PC's online games with its crappiness (Windows Live).


 There are some frees ones if I recall correctly.  I think there were some free crackdown ones?  Not sure.  But overall I agree and pointed out that currently, a lot of the PC features on consoles are bastardized versions right now and I don't like it much.

The biggest thing I like so far is the trend to allow downloadable demos.  Its much more convenient and a fun feature.   And only a few games will be having the PC to console connections.  I don't care that much since most of the games I'm interested are likely not going to be on the PC.



Smidlee on 07 January 2008
darconi said:
 


Have you seen the Orange box videos? The PS3 had a MASSIVE amount of load time in comparison.

 

 I have Orange box for PS3 and the loads time isn't that bad yet Uncharted looks 10 times better than Orange box with no loads time.

 



starcraft on 07 January 2008
NJ5 said:

While it's not a big deal to be forced to install a game, there are definitely a few weird things going on here:


1- Why isn't installation optional?
2- Why is installation not allowed on the 360 (with the condition of having a HDD installed of course)?

I'd venture the following guesses:

1- It could be that some technical limitation of the PS3 made installation necessary. This indicates that data access speed was the blocking factor, due to for example one of the following limitations:

  • lower CPU RAM (the PS3 has 512 MB split equally between GPU and CPU while the 360 allows the developer to split the 512 MB as they wish).
  • PS3's Blu-Ray drive has a lower seek time than 360's DVD drive (the same reason why Bethesda replicated data multiple times on Oblivion's PS3 disc)

2- They didn't bother with implementing this feature.

 


I'd say it would be the RAM.  But of course this is just guess work.  When they implemented this poor RAM system, it's possible Sony realised they'd need the option of data duplication on discs.  Hence when they said, "high-def consoles NEED more storage," they meant "the PS3 NEEDS more storage."



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darconi on 07 January 2008
Smidlee said:
darconi said:
 


Have you seen the Orange box videos? The PS3 had a MASSIVE amount of load time in comparison.

 

I have Orange box for PS3 and the loads time isn't that bad yet Uncharted looks 10 times better than Orange box with no loads time.

 


 http://kotaku.com/gaming/clips/the-orange-box-ps3-vs-360-portal-333165.php

 Watch that video and tell me that the difference between those two are insignificant.  Everyone can deal with load times being bad but that doesn't mean it should be.

And Uncharted is a different type of game.  By your logic, games should never have loading times anymore since...oh Uncharted didn't have loading time and it looks fine. 



kimbo on 07 January 2008
darconi said:

According to joystiq report:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/07/devil-may-cry-4-for-ps3-gets-achievements/#comments

"and noted a 5GB required installation before you can play the game. The 1UP podcast this week also confirmed this, saying it took 25 minutes to complete the installation process,"

Is it just me or is that absolutely ridiculous?! So far it looks like this is only required on the PS3, not on the 360 (hard to since 360 does not all have HDD anyway).

I'm a big PC gamer and everything but this type of thing only works on PC's because you're allowed to add mods and what not usually. Its commonly accepted for PC's if not ideal but on a console? You gotta be kidding me.

So far here's the things that this gen has taken from PC gaming (both good and bad): downloaded patches, heavy internet connectivity (scoreboards), user mods (UT), and now hard drive installation.

 

 


Thats not a big deal. Half of the time it takes PS3 demos from PS Store like 5 minutes just to download and another 5 minutes to install it on the hard drive.

I'm just wondering if its worth the hassel to use this feature....