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Forums - Politics - Was David Cameron really a coward?

 

Was this a cowardly act by David Cameron?

Yes 39 34.82%
 
No 73 65.18%
 
Total:112
Jexy on 16 December 2011

No and good for him. Why align yourself with a current failure? They said France won out, then it took 2 days for the world to see their plan was useless and now France's banks and France themselves will be downgraded. Looks like he picked right.



BOOM!  FACE KICK!

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zuvuyeay on 16 December 2011

the financial power centre will move to asia sometime surely but london can still be a player,people within europe seem to understimate the attraction london has from other parts of the world

but why do people consistently bitch on about london and threaten england within the eurozone,don't you think they should look within first and sort out the absolute disaster that is awaiting them,when food prices rise,jobs go,debt that is unpayable,uncompetitive against the rest of the world and immigrants clashing with natives all within unelected people giving out rules and an eu politik that can't afford to make any decisions that will matter,sounds like we are heading for a war to me

why the fuck would england want to sign up to brussells and be told what to do by people who haven't got a clue,we'll be fine on our own,i don't know why people are so worried,



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lordmandeep on 16 December 2011

Cameron may get the last laugh, the plan looks like it will not be enough.



Kasz216 on 16 December 2011
fauzman said:
Kasz216 said:
fauzman said:
Kasz216 said:
fauzman said:
kowenicki said:
fauzman said:
I wouldnt say he is a coward but imo it was a very ill-advised move. He was facing pressure from his Eurosceptic Conservative Party members to not sign the deal, and on the other hand he was facing pressure from Europes leaders to support the deal. At this stage, we dont really know if this was a great move or not, but London which is the financial capital of Europe, may certainly suffer from Cameron's rejection. I would say the that fortunes of the Conservative Party for the next few years depend on the fallout of this.


its actually the biggest financial centre in the world.  

I think you have read the fall out of this totally wrong.  What would have been certain is that the financial sector and London as a financial centre would have suffered majorly had he agreed to the amendments.  Also far from merely placating the tory euro sceptics, he said many, many times before the meeting what he would and would not sign up for and shock horror, he actually did what he said he would do... novel I know... a politicial doing what he said he would do.  

We aren't in the Eurozone, it has nothing to do with us.  We are the 2nd largest net contributor to the EU..... the EU will not cut off their nose to spite their faces.  If they do.. so be it, we will be fine.

I would disagree with you here. You ARE right in that had Britain agreed to the conditions, then Britain would have suffered to a degree  - from what ive heard maybe more so than other european countries due to its being the financial capital of europe (or the world if you are right) - even though its not part of the Eurozone. BUT I think Britain pulling out of the deal will have its own consequences. Most of the companies that make London such a financial power are from other european countries and they will likely face pressure from their governments to pull out/reduce presence in Britain. Additionally, EU/Eurozone countries may decide to punish Britain with restrictions and trade barriers/financial and economic relations. Again, as I said, we dont know what will happen and Britain may escape unaffected but then again maybe not.

Britain's main competitors are Switzerland (Not in the EU).  Hong Kong.  (Not in the EU) and New York.  (Not in the EU.)

Furthermore such a law if it were to pass and the UK were to be pushed out of the eurozone would essentially kill any finanicals done in the euro countries.

Think you missed my point here. Where Britains main competitors are is irrelevant. I was talking about the EU/Eurozone's financial institutions/companies (primarily France and Germany) pulling out from Britain. This is unlikely and would be costly but if their governments really decided to put pressure on these companies to be in a state where the new taxes/restrictions apply, then they would have to do it.

Im not sure I understand your 2nd point - about UK being pushed out of eurozone. How would this kill any financial transactions in euro countries?

If they pulled out of britian they'd have to deal with much higher lending rates.

Espeically in the situation they have now, nobdoy wants to take on large amounts added Euro exposure.

If the governments pushed those companies to work within the eurozone where those restrictions apply... it'd also be way more costly due to the new regulations and hurt economic growth... in a time of recession where they need all the economic growth they can get.

I wouldnt know the specifics but you make a lot of sense. My point was that most/all of this would have happened if Britain had signed up to the new agreements, so  the eurozone countries are clearly willing to suffer a little to stabilise things and increase confidence. I agree that it would be very costly to the eurozone countries to shift businesses away from Britain BUT if they DONT do this, then Britain pulling out will undermine the agreement reached. If the agreement is for all of the eurozone (other than Britain), then  Britain and foreign/domestic companies based there will be exempt. Does this not effectively defeat the purpose of the agreement - that financial companies are much more strictly regulated to ensure that this sort of situation does not happen again? To stop this, and stop even more financial companies shifting to Britain, the Eurozone countries will HAVE to put pressure on their national companies currently based in Britain, as well as penalties on Britain, to make sure the restrictions work.

So that what doesn't happen again?

The current crisis has nothing to do with banks and everything to do with governments being fiscally irresponsible while in a shared currency.



fauzman on 18 December 2011
Kasz216 said:
fauzman said:
Kasz216 said:
fauzman said:
Kasz216 said:
fauzman said:
kowenicki said:
fauzman said:
I wouldnt say he is a coward but imo it was a very ill-advised move. He was facing pressure from his Eurosceptic Conservative Party members to not sign the deal, and on the other hand he was facing pressure from Europes leaders to support the deal. At this stage, we dont really know if this was a great move or not, but London which is the financial capital of Europe, may certainly suffer from Cameron's rejection. I would say the that fortunes of the Conservative Party for the next few years depend on the fallout of this.


its actually the biggest financial centre in the world.  

I think you have read the fall out of this totally wrong.  What would have been certain is that the financial sector and London as a financial centre would have suffered majorly had he agreed to the amendments.  Also far from merely placating the tory euro sceptics, he said many, many times before the meeting what he would and would not sign up for and shock horror, he actually did what he said he would do... novel I know... a politicial doing what he said he would do.  

We aren't in the Eurozone, it has nothing to do with us.  We are the 2nd largest net contributor to the EU..... the EU will not cut off their nose to spite their faces.  If they do.. so be it, we will be fine.

I would disagree with you here. You ARE right in that had Britain agreed to the conditions, then Britain would have suffered to a degree  - from what ive heard maybe more so than other european countries due to its being the financial capital of europe (or the world if you are right) - even though its not part of the Eurozone. BUT I think Britain pulling out of the deal will have its own consequences. Most of the companies that make London such a financial power are from other european countries and they will likely face pressure from their governments to pull out/reduce presence in Britain. Additionally, EU/Eurozone countries may decide to punish Britain with restrictions and trade barriers/financial and economic relations. Again, as I said, we dont know what will happen and Britain may escape unaffected but then again maybe not.

Britain's main competitors are Switzerland (Not in the EU).  Hong Kong.  (Not in the EU) and New York.  (Not in the EU.)

Furthermore such a law if it were to pass and the UK were to be pushed out of the eurozone would essentially kill any finanicals done in the euro countries.

Think you missed my point here. Where Britains main competitors are is irrelevant. I was talking about the EU/Eurozone's financial institutions/companies (primarily France and Germany) pulling out from Britain. This is unlikely and would be costly but if their governments really decided to put pressure on these companies to be in a state where the new taxes/restrictions apply, then they would have to do it.

Im not sure I understand your 2nd point - about UK being pushed out of eurozone. How would this kill any financial transactions in euro countries?

If they pulled out of britian they'd have to deal with much higher lending rates.

Espeically in the situation they have now, nobdoy wants to take on large amounts added Euro exposure.

If the governments pushed those companies to work within the eurozone where those restrictions apply... it'd also be way more costly due to the new regulations and hurt economic growth... in a time of recession where they need all the economic growth they can get.

I wouldnt know the specifics but you make a lot of sense. My point was that most/all of this would have happened if Britain had signed up to the new agreements, so  the eurozone countries are clearly willing to suffer a little to stabilise things and increase confidence. I agree that it would be very costly to the eurozone countries to shift businesses away from Britain BUT if they DONT do this, then Britain pulling out will undermine the agreement reached. If the agreement is for all of the eurozone (other than Britain), then  Britain and foreign/domestic companies based there will be exempt. Does this not effectively defeat the purpose of the agreement - that financial companies are much more strictly regulated to ensure that this sort of situation does not happen again? To stop this, and stop even more financial companies shifting to Britain, the Eurozone countries will HAVE to put pressure on their national companies currently based in Britain, as well as penalties on Britain, to make sure the restrictions work.

So that what doesn't happen again?

The current crisis has nothing to do with banks and everything to do with governments being fiscally irresponsible while in a shared currency.





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Lyrikalstylez on 18 December 2011

This is the beginning of the NWO!!

First Step: Bring all European Nations under 1 currency

Next Step: United States

 

Im serious, We need to do something now before its TOO LATE!!



Badassbab on 19 December 2011
Kasz216 said:

So that what doesn't happen again?

The current crisis has nothing to do with banks and everything to do with governments being fiscally irresponsible while in a shared currency.


I wouldn't go that far, after all the banks want their money back. In true free market tradition the Governments of those countries wouldn't be bailed out but rather default and banks would have to accept their losses but we all know Governments will be there to bail out the biggest banks (which is what this is really about- making sure the banks get at least some of their money back and reassuring them with taxpayers money so as to get them lending again and with previous lower interest rates).






Kasz216 on 19 December 2011
Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:

So that what doesn't happen again?

The current crisis has nothing to do with banks and everything to do with governments being fiscally irresponsible while in a shared currency.


I wouldn't go that far, after all the banks want their money back. In true free market tradition the Governments of those countries wouldn't be bailed out but rather default and banks would have to accept their losses but we all know Governments will be there to bail out the biggest banks (which is what this is really about- making sure the banks get at least some of their money back and reassuring them with taxpayers money so as to get them lending again and with previous lower interest rates).

Though in a true free market the banks would probably be able to take a lot of the governments assets in bankruptcy court as well though.

Which would just be.... awful.

Either way they're already going through a "Bankruptcy" type situation anyway, with banks having to take at least a 50% haircut on the debt.



chris.m95 on 30 December 2011

Hes heading in the right direction a joint European economy is just going to end up in disaster.

-Brit-



Wait... does this mean im not human?

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