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Forums - General Discussion - Occupy Wall Street Protests not working? What do you think?

 

How much of an impact is OWS having?

Can't hear them over the sound of my Ferrari 60 24.10%
 
Just a news story, no visible results 82 32.93%
 
Helping change minds, it's a start 68 27.31%
 
Change is on the horizon, just you wait 27 10.84%
 
I feel the impact already 6 2.41%
 
Can't hear them over the... 6 2.41%
 
Total:249
fordy on 20 November 2011
HappySqurriel said:
fordy said:
HappySqurriel said:
fordy said:
Wow, the amount of ignorance in this thread is absolutely staggering. First they say "We don't know what the movement is about", and then you state "it's had more than enough news coverage". Then you state that it's nothing but a bunch of whiners who do not want to work. That, my friends, is called prejudice.

For those lazy people who do not do their research and instead decide to assume, the occupy movement relates to government persuasion and favouritism by funds from the private sector, effectively turning the country into a plutocracy. Plus, investing in a congressman can be considered one of the best investments a wealthy investor or corporation can make, with average calculations of return at 17,000% of the original investment via subsidies etc. Somebody tell me then, if a politician mostly is under the influence of corporate "donations", which side would he stand if a conflict arose between the people and said corporations?


I think you're the one who is looking at the movement through your own biased and seeing what you want to see ...

While there are people who are making statements along the lines of what you're claiming there are also claims being made by countless groups for countless causes which act as noise for any meaningful message from the movement. When you have socialist, anarchist, communist, pro-union, pot-legalization, anti-Semitic, student-debt forgiveness, and anti-corruption messages being delivered in an environment of squalor, drug abuse, and crime from people who seem to be playing parliament similar to the kids in Lord of the Flies it becomes difficult to see much of a serious point to the movement.

As I mentioned before, do your research.

 

Canadian based foundation, Adbusters, proposed the occupy movement based on the following:

 

- Corporate influence on democracy

- A growing disparity in wealth

- The absence of legal repercussions behind the recent global financial crisis.

 

Some may want to take it to other levels, but those are the BASE meanings behind the movement.

(Yes, this is a repeated post, but it's interesting how it goes ignored in order to hold up the whole "nobody knows what they're protesting for" bubble)

 

What percentage of the protestors could actually communicate that as the origin and/or meaning behind the movement? If it is less than an overwhelming majority it can’t really be said to be the point of the movement. If the percentage is as low as I suspect it is (in the 1% to 5% range) it is just one of many messages being drowned out in the noise of the movement.


I'd appreciate if you don't bring speculative figures into the conversation. If you don't know the figure, then don't assume that's the case.

On the flip side, I could say the ravenous Tea Party movement had no clear goal because it consisted of conservatives, religious nuts, pro lifers, gun fanatics, no-government anarchists and people with racial intolerance.



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Tony_Stark on 20 November 2011

The poll is a biased piece of garbage, there was no option I could choose. The wall street protests are not working, why? Because the US is a republic, not a democracy, mob rule does not apply here. Add to that the fact that there is no coherant message, crime, racism, hate, and hipocracy runs rampant in this small group of eco-terrorist wannabe's. It's not surprising the public for the most part, has rejected them. Now, for any idiots wanting to compair this movement to the tea party movement, you are way out of your legue. The tea party movement was not racist, not hateful, not unlawful, clean, orderly, had a clear concise message, and was effective...the opposite is true of the OWS group. They truely are a representation of what is wrong with the world today. 



"with great power, comes great responsibility."

fordy on 21 November 2011

Tony_Stark said:

Because the US is a republic, not a democracy, mob rule does not apply here

Until the politicians realise that, unless they appeal to a (still growing) mob, their chances of staying in congress may be in jeopardy.

 

Tony_Stark said:

Add to that the fact that there is no coherant message, crime, racism, hate, and hipocracy runs rampant in this small group of eco-terrorist wannabe's.

Mmhm somebody's been listening to the wrong news sources again. do you know what they had the audacity to do? When Mayor bloomberg went to close Zuccotti Park in order to "clean the park", the protestors cleaned it for them. How DARE THEY! Oh and the Yom Kippur sessions they had? Oh, how racist and insensitive of them, appealing to all of those people!!

Tony_Stark said:

 It's not surprising the public for the most part, has rejected them.

A United Technologies/National Journal Congressional poll found that 59 percent of Americans agree with the movement while 31 percent disagree.

An October Quinnipiac University poll of New York City voters found that 67 percent of New Yorkers approved of the movement with 23 percent disapproving.

A NY1-Marist Poll released November 1st showed 44 percent of New York voters supported the Occupy Wall Street movement, while only 21 percent supported the Tea Party.

No, the public supports the movement, even moreso than the Tea Party.

Tony_Stark said:

 Now, for any idiots wanting to compair this movement to the tea party movement, you are way out of your legue. The tea party movement was not racist, not hateful, not unlawful, clean, orderly, had a clear concise message, and was effective...the opposite is true of the OWS group. 

Okay, so I just take your word for it, huh? Well, let's see what others say..

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/04/gop_member_sends_email_depicting_obama_family_as_apes.html - Well well. All nice and innocent here, arent we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYRLeJw1aG8

 

I could paste more if you like. I have tons of them...

By the way, the Tea Party embraces pro-life (ie government stepping in to prevent abortion), yet it's for small government. Isn't that a contradiction? Who knows what these nuts truly stand for.

Tony_Stark said:

 They truely are a representation of what is wrong with the world today. 

So you're not with the movement why? Are you for politicians being bought by corporate dollars? Are you for rigging of laws towards favouritism? They don't respresent what's wrong with the world today, they're against it

And unless you're part of the wealthy elite, you'd have to have rocks in your head to support Corporate influence in the politics. Do some research on the movement and stop spreading insane bullshit when you don't have a clue what it represents. That is called prejudice.

 



lordmandeep on 21 November 2011

I think many agree with the 99% message but I think most doubt the effectiveness of the movement.

Presently, the whole focus of the OWS is not on the 99% and 1% but on the parks and the camps and what do they stand for and if they are effective?

How does that in any way signal that OWS is a growing and healthy movement is beyond me.

One thing you fail to note is the tea party has crazy nuts but we know what they stand for, less govt and lower spending and they have organized to be very effective in the govt itself and make OWS seem like a joke.

Another point Tea Party supporters VOTE GOD DAMN IT!!! OWS think the whole system sucks, and do not vote and that is most young people's view as well.

We always forget that... Polls are meaningless as a whole... all that depends is the people who vote.

Poll after poll always show Americans supporting liberal values and what happens on election night?
Americans support all of these things yet Republicans get a ton of votes... Ask your self how does this happen?


OWS does want to bring change, but it wants to do so in a unclear and unrealistic manner and therefore it will not succeed.


About the parks, dismissing the problems is a bit snobish. The parks especially here in Canada have been become a homeless shelter and frankly gather 100 homeless people and you are going to have a ton of problems. I think no one wants the homeless to live in our parks so I think that is reason enough to dismantle the camps on public property.


Research on the movement is that is a disorganized mess, that needs to get its act together. OWS symbolizes why the left in America has been so useless as a political force for the past many years.



sales2099 on 21 November 2011

The rich wont suddenly redistribute their wealth to people that don't know how to manage money. Blame the gov't, not the rich



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

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lordmandeep on 21 November 2011

I agree, protesting rich people will not make them become better through the goodness of their hearts.

Also this is not 1917, if we decide to declare class warfare, frankly people can easily move a lot of wealth to the rest of the world.



Tony_Stark on 21 November 2011
fordy said:

Tony_Stark said:

Because the US is a republic, not a democracy, mob rule does not apply here

Until the politicians realise that, unless they appeal to a (still growing) mob, their chances of staying in congress may be in jeopardy.

No, the mob is not growing, and the day politicians succumb to mob rule, is the day the US dies. 

Tony_Stark said:

Add to that the fact that there is no coherant message, crime, racism, hate, and hipocracy runs rampant in this small group of eco-terrorist wannabe's.

Mmhm somebody's been listening to the wrong news sources again. do you know what they had the audacity to do? When Mayor bloomberg went to close Zuccotti Park in order to "clean the park", the protestors cleaned it for them. How DARE THEY! Oh and the Yom Kippur sessions they had? Oh, how racist and insensitive of them, appealing to all of those people!!

XD I seriously hope, for your sake, that you are not this ignorant, one isolated incident, which is in stark contrast to previouse instances with the very same group of protestors, does not mean they are not criminals. I see your "yom kippor session, and raise you literally hundreds of racist comments made by variouse protestors. Once again, cherry picking at this stage in the game, is silly, anybody with half a brain knows better. 

Tony_Stark said:

 It's not surprising the public for the most part, has rejected them.

A United Technologies/National Journal Congressional poll found that 59 percent of Americans agree with the movement while 31 percent disagree.

An October Quinnipiac University poll of New York City voters found that 67 percent of New Yorkers approved of the movement with 23 percent disapproving.

A NY1-Marist Poll released November 1st showed 44 percent of New York voters supported the Occupy Wall Street movement, while only 21 percent supported the Tea Party.

No, the public supports the movement, even moreso than the Tea Party.

 

Until I see the polling data, I will not blindy assume these polls are correct. I have seen real polls, with traceable polling data that suggest otherwise. I'm smarter than that.

Tony_Stark said:

 Now, for any idiots wanting to compair this movement to the tea party movement, you are way out of your legue. The tea party movement was not racist, not hateful, not unlawful, clean, orderly, had a clear concise message, and was effective...the opposite is true of the OWS group. 

Okay, so I just take your word for it, huh? Well, let's see what others say..

http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/04/gop_member_sends_email_depicting_obama_family_as_apes.html - Well well. All nice and innocent here, arent we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYRLeJw1aG8

I see your two examples and raise you the MILLIONS of people who shunned these nuts publically. I don't see anybody in the WSP shunning the thousands of nut jobs hating against Jews, and other races. 

I could paste more if you like. I have tons of them...

No, no, you really don't.

By the way, the Tea Party embraces pro-life (ie government stepping in to prevent abortion), yet it's for small government. Isn't that a contradiction? Who knows what these nuts truly stand for.

Abortion is murder, they are against murder because, well, it happens to be a crime that the government is supposed to enforce, sorry buddy, but once again, you are wrong. 

Tony_Stark said:

 They truely are a representation of what is wrong with the world today. 

So you're not with the movement why? Are you for politicians being bought by corporate dollars? Are you for rigging of laws towards favouritism? They don't respresent what's wrong with the world today, they're against it.

No, that's not what's wrong with it, the government is the problems, regulations have allowed crony capitalism to thrive, this is yet another example of big government fusking up, and these WSPs are idiots protesting against the wrong people. 

And unless you're part of the wealthy elite, you'd have to have rocks in your head to support Corporate influence in the politics. Do some research on the movement and stop spreading insane bullshit when you don't have a clue what it represents. That is called prejudice.

Wrong again, I am not part of the wealthy elite, I've done my homework on this BS, and let me tell you, it only ends one way, socialism, every time. My "insane BS" is actually fact, do some research yourself instead of following these idiots off the cliff like a lemming. 

 





"with great power, comes great responsibility."

Jexy on 21 November 2011
Tony_Stark said:

The poll is a biased piece of garbage, there was no option I could choose. The wall street protests are not working, why? Because the US is a republic, not a democracy, mob rule does not apply here. Add to that the fact that there is no coherant message, crime, racism, hate, and hipocracy runs rampant in this small group of eco-terrorist wannabe's. It's not surprising the public for the most part, has rejected them. Now, for any idiots wanting to compair this movement to the tea party movement, you are way out of your legue. The tea party movement was not racist, not hateful, not unlawful, clean, orderly, had a clear concise message, and was effective...the opposite is true of the OWS group. They truely are a representation of what is wrong with the world today. 


You just admitted its a news story and has no visible results.  Is that not a choice you could choose since it aligns directly with what you believe?  It is clearly a news story, and you said it's not working, hence JUST a news story with no results.



BOOM!  FACE KICK!

Kasz216 on 21 November 2011
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
fordy said:
Wow, the amount of ignorance in this thread is absolutely staggering. First they say "We don't know what the movement is about", and then you state "it's had more than enough news coverage". Then you state that it's nothing but a bunch of whiners who do not want to work. That, my friends, is called prejudice.

For those lazy people who do not do their research and instead decide to assume, the occupy movement relates to government persuasion and favouritism by funds from the private sector, effectively turning the country into a plutocracy. Plus, investing in a congressman can be considered one of the best investments a wealthy investor or corporation can make, with average calculations of return at 17,000% of the original investment via subsidies etc. Somebody tell me then, if a politician mostly is under the influence of corporate "donations", which side would he stand if a conflict arose between the people and said corporations?

The people.  Because at the end of the day people are the ones who keep you in power.

You can have all the corporate money in the world... it's not going to do jack if you piss off the people.

Please Kasz, your post assumes the people will be just as alert to politicians' actions as the corporations.  "All the corporate money in the world" won't make politicans stand by BP when they caused the disastrous Gulf of Mexico oil spill, but if it's not making headlines ...

Owning politicians means corporations can do serious damage to our country (for short-term or special interest gain) and all they have to do is keep a majority of people in the dark about it.  Or shit, if they get stupid politicians (not rare), they can just buy off the next one when the first one gets run out on a rail.  (I'm sure you know the big companies spend on both sides.) 

Just as alert?  No.   Still alert enough though to detect anything big... which generally is the stuff that's "Against the people".

Just about anything particularly important that particularly hurts the majority of people is untouchable.  All the little subsidies and things they do I don't think they see as "against the people" nor do most people.  It's justified to most people and most polticians because in general they get won over by the arguement.

For example, you are one of the people who think the 2008 crisis was caused by the repeal of glass steagal right?  If I remember correctly that was done during the "Banking Modernization Act" which received massive bipartisian support and had basically nobody voting against it, and in general people thinking it'd be good for the economy... and banks likely thought that as well.

Everytime there has been an attempt to get lobbying money out of Washington, at best it's failed, and  othertimes it's often made things worse.

Why?  Because you are essentially asking the bribed to stop themselves from being bribed.

The only way to stop bribery from the highest levels of government is to take away their power over the small things that can be influnced. 



Kasz216 on 21 November 2011
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:

It's generally hard to have an impact when your movement is generally devoid of a point or solutions.

I wouldn't say it's falling on deaf ears. People are saying "I'm angry".

However, that's about all there saying.

That's why over 60% of the country is now against occupy Wall street.

If they actually focused on real issues and the real problem, they'd have more support.

Like say... "If the banks were too big to fail, why didn't the government, as a precondition for loaning banks money, require in that accepting that money, they would then be split up into smaller banks that wouldn't be too big to fail."

Instead the whole movement seems to be  characterized as "Booooo!  Rich people suck!"

What percentage of people don't think there is a problem with how income distribution is happening in the country, or have concerns that the American dreram is loss?  Do you think a majority of people find it acceptable?  Beyond that, do a majority of people don't think there isn't corruption in Wall Street?

Like this poll: 6 in 10 want Washington to do something about the income inequality to address it:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/six-in-10-support-policies-addressing-income-inequality/

And Wall Street itself (and Washington) aren't polling favorably either:
http://news.yahoo.com/poll-us-public-disfavors-wall-street-washington-031956066.html

 

The movement had gotten stale in what it was doing.  The issue shifted from the economic issues to the right to camp out in public parks.  Camping out in public parks isn't what people care about.

There's more then one way to address income inequality... and plenty of people who'd like to see things changed to decrease it who think OWS is well... stupid.

Like for example people who want to privitise schools so schooling can get better.   The government could do a lot to address income disparity by getting out of the way.