Nintendo didn't give a shit about performance of the PS3 or X360 when they outlined the WiiU's components. They had their vision of the controller and how to get everything with 1080p into an affordable box. They designed the WiiU in 2008-2011 for those goals. It really annoys me to read people's pipe dreams about 150W GPUs and 200W CPUs in any future console. And when the PS4 comes out, it might at best three times as fast as the WiiU, because there simply is a thermal wall for consoles that no pipe dream of using current high-end stuff can surpass. And no, the WiiU isn't even close to 3.5 times as fast as a PS360.

It ain't pipe dreams bro, it's an educated guess based on what specs have been given and rumored leaks about the system's CPU & GPU!!!  As much as many last generation HD fanboys would like to make the Wii U less powerful than what it really is it ain't happening.  The CPU, GPU, and 4x the amount of total RAM(2 GB/512=4 sorry I don't buy the 1GB/512MB shit, PS3 only has 256 MB dedicated for games if that's how ppl want to go) and embedded RAM(32MB vs 10MB for X360, and a fat 0 for PS3) shows why the Wii U is really more powerful than last generation system.  People are dreaming if they think the Wii U is equivalent to the PS360, as BO for WiiU  already shows that it is running better than last gen systems.  Regarding pipe-dreams it would be foolish to think the PS4 will be significantly more powerful than the Wii U, seeing the dire financial situation that Sony is at the moment.  In fact, Sony out of the 3 console makers is in the worst situation out of the 3 console makers.  I fully expect the Durango/720 to be the most powerful around 5-6x PS360 based on IGN(50-75% more than WiiU) followed by Sony (>30%); which is the most logical assumption based on what little we know of the upcoming systems.  

Am i the only one who thinks MS and Sony will push for a more subscription based pay model next gen?

This makes the most sense to me just about everything today is micro transactions or subscription based. Gone are the days of spending huge amounts of money up front. Companies are realizing now that a big investment upfront is not consumer friendly and chases away consumer interest from the get go.

Also Sony just bought Gaikai and are seriously ramping up their online/digital offering. It all makes sense to me. This will also allow Sony/MS to release a more premium model...as consumers will eventually cover the cost in a year or two and then exceed it the next few years.

The main problem with this kinda model is that the content must be there on a consistent basis. I'm not terribly sure on the specifics but i think there's a good chance Sony and MS will go this route

I think that it's pretty much given Microsoft will have that model in addition to regular, considering they're testing it with 360. As for Sony...now, I'm not sure how is model working exactly, are you loosing at the beginning quite a bit more compared to pay-all-at-once model, but you're more profitable at the end, but if that's the case I'm not sure Sony will be willing/able to bleed even more money. Hopefully that model will allow for more powerful hardware (looking at something similar to 7970m with 75-100W TDP and 8-10x more power than PS360 doesn't seem like that far of a stretch honestly)

Shinobi-san said: Am i the only one who thinks MS and Sony will push for a more subscription based pay model next gen? This makes the most sense to me just about everything today is micro transactions or subscription based. Gone are the days of spending huge amounts of money up front. Companies are realizing now that a big investment upfront is not consumer friendly and chases away consumer interest from the get go. Also Sony just bought Gaikai and are seriously ramping up their online/digital offering. It all makes sense to me. This will also allow Sony/MS to release a more premium model...as consumers will eventually cover the cost in a year or two and then exceed it the next few years. The main problem with this kinda model is that the content must be there on a consistent basis. I'm not terribly sure on the specifics but i think there's a good chance Sony and MS will go this route

If MS and Sony goes this route and is able to convince investors of a secure return, then yes I believe that the 720 and PS4 will be indeed a beast!!!  Probably even 8x more powerful than PS360 or 2-3x more powerful than the Wii U, while costing just a bit more.  However, unless they find a more viable way of funding such an endeavor, I could see Durango/PS4 go no better than 50-75% more capable than the Wii U, at the same or slightly above the same price!!!

Shinobi-san said: Am i the only one who thinks MS and Sony will push for a more subscription based pay model next gen? This makes the most sense to me just about everything today is micro transactions or subscription based. Gone are the days of spending huge amounts of money up front. Companies are realizing now that a big investment upfront is not consumer friendly and chases away consumer interest from the get go. Also Sony just bought Gaikai and are seriously ramping up their online/digital offering. It all makes sense to me. This will also allow Sony/MS to release a more premium model...as consumers will eventually cover the cost in a year or two and then exceed it the next few years. The main problem with this kinda model is that the content must be there on a consistent basis. I'm not terribly sure on the specifics but i think there's a good chance Sony and MS will go this route

I'm not sure. MS played with it here in the US but I didn't see any major shift in sales. But it may be more effective with a new console. It would also require Sony to make its online a fully paid enterprise. While PSN+ is nice, I don't think its enough to warrant a 2yr contract. Whereas Live is required for anything online on Xbox.

Hey chunk, I never got your opinion on how much more powerful the Wii U is compared to the last gen HD systems!!! When I started that thread, I was thinking you were gonna be one of the first ones to respond seeing how you started this one.

Edit: wow that ended up as a rant...sorry about long read :(

I think it will work the same for Sony and MS. Not sure what the difference will be?

The idea with a subscription is to gain long term customers and have a continuous revenue flow. MS made huge amounts of money from XBOX live subscription. Just think about how much money MS has made with all those Halo and COD players, who bought 360 at the very begining at a high price and have continued to pay for xbox live for the next 7 years! I would say on those particular customers MS has made back triple or quadruple the amount of money...not to mention online sales etc. I dont think MS even sold the 360 at a loss....(not sure about this though).

All that needs to happen here is make the console affordable upfront, lets say 199 - 299USD? And add on a bigger subscription fee that can recover costs much sooner. Obviously for this to be viable the manufacturer needs to offer additional services. In MS case they offer multiplayer as an additional cost. Sony needs to do the same as well and add additional services like gaikai, instant collection, psn plus etc. Gaikai is key here for Sony as it sets them apart from the rest.

Both companies would obviously need to look at the model and see how it will work for them as well as the consumer. I just see it as a win win across the board for both consumer and company. Provided that the offering and services are up to par. IMO this would not bleed money and Sony would make much more in a year or two's time.

By making money in the long term i dont mean that in the same way as the current pricing model. This is different from the current model in that the console is being sold at a loss upfront with no substantial plan to recover costs! The "plan" then is to make money on software. Yeah this works if you have some sort of monopoly on the industry but in the current situation its not feasable. Not to mention the ever increasing costs to make big budget games, and again the reluctance of consumers to spend insane amounts of money on what is seen entirely as a luxury. I mean shit....70$ for a new game wtf. No one is wnning from this situation except maybe activision and a few others big publishers. This is a major risk as sony are not sure whether those costs are even going to be made back.

Think about a guy who bought the ps3 when it first launched. 599$ for the consumer, a ~200 - 400$ loss for sony. The guy then only buys COD once a year of which sony is hardly making anything as the margins are so tight. Who wins here? Not the consumer he just bought a 599$ toy and a couple of games every now and then. Not sony, they just made a 400$ loss on a 1000$ toy. OKay yeah the makers of COD make money sure, but ONLY if production costs are covered which in itself is risky as millions will need to be sold.

Everything about the current model does not work. Its expensive for everybody involved and most of all  its completey inconvenient. I feel a new pricing model will  do wonders for the industry especially going into next gen as prices are boung to jump again.

superchunk said: Shinobi-san said: Am i the only one who thinks MS and Sony will push for a more subscription based pay model next gen? This makes the most sense to me just about everything today is micro transactions or subscription based. Gone are the days of spending huge amounts of money up front. Companies are realizing now that a big investment upfront is not consumer friendly and chases away consumer interest from the get go. Also Sony just bought Gaikai and are seriously ramping up their online/digital offering. It all makes sense to me. This will also allow Sony/MS to release a more premium model...as consumers will eventually cover the cost in a year or two and then exceed it the next few years. The main problem with this kinda model is that the content must be there on a consistent basis. I'm not terribly sure on the specifics but i think there's a good chance Sony and MS will go this route I'm not sure. MS played with it here in the US but I didn't see any major shift in sales. But it may be more effective with a new console. It would also require Sony to make its online a fully paid enterprise. While PSN+ is nice, I don't think its enough to warrant a 2yr contract. Whereas Live is required for anything online on Xbox.

The way things are now it would never work neither company offers enough services, offerings, extras, convenience to warrant a substantial subscrition. And yes Sony would probably have to start charging for multiplayer, or come up with something else that warrants the subscription.

The service offering package really is the key here. Without the added value this will not work.

oni-link said: Shinobi-san said: Am i the only one who thinks MS and Sony will push for a more subscription based pay model next gen? This makes the most sense to me just about everything today is micro transactions or subscription based. Gone are the days of spending huge amounts of money up front. Companies are realizing now that a big investment upfront is not consumer friendly and chases away consumer interest from the get go. Also Sony just bought Gaikai and are seriously ramping up their online/digital offering. It all makes sense to me. This will also allow Sony/MS to release a more premium model...as consumers will eventually cover the cost in a year or two and then exceed it the next few years. The main problem with this kinda model is that the content must be there on a consistent basis. I'm not terribly sure on the specifics but i think there's a good chance Sony and MS will go this route If MS and Sony goes this route and is able to convince investors of a secure return, then yes I believe that the 720 and PS4 will be indeed a beast!!!  Probably even 8x more powerful than PS360 or 2-3x more powerful than the Wii U, while costing just a bit more.  However, unless they find a more viable way of funding such an endeavor, I could see Durango/PS4 go no better than 50-75% more capable than the Wii U, at the same or slightly above the same price!!!

I agree...

If either MS or Sony go the "power" route with the current pricing model they will not survive the gen especially sony.