What I'm trying to see is, that they should have been able to see the short comings of the Vita - but they didn't. They should have been able to see that they had no momentum going in, and that they had lost a very important franchise. But they didn't.

And I'm basing my assumption of a Wii U aching controller based on Tachikoma's comments made in a different thread, coupled with internet rumors. I think those comments were made in my thread "Why PS4 won't be cutting edge" - you'll find the link below in my sig.

And having a screen without touch sensors would just be stupid imo...

Things like reversing the situation caused by losing momentum in the previous generation is not something that can be reversed fast..wiiu is also a prime example of this. I do blame them for losing MH..that was a big blunder...but again what major franchise can they 'lose' going into next gen in home consoles? COd? GTA? FF? All three highly unlikely. So again you keep going back to vita when it's a different ball game altogether :) Perspective..it's important

internet only had one rumor ...trust me I follow this like crazy (not yoru thread tho..no offense but that was a complete thread made on wishful thinking)

and not at all, it depends on the purpose. Display the readings from biometrics...show notifications from the XMB so you won't be distracted mid game...if it's large enough it can even be a mini key board and also be used for navigating the OS. Possibilities are endless...you just have to have a bit of imagination. Like I said I hope it's not a tablet controller..needless expense. 

I don't think anyone is disputing that Sony still makes mistakes, but they did not repeat the mistakes PS3 made with the Vita, and there's no indication they will with the PS4.

PS3's biggest mistakes were complex architecture, massive loss on console, associated costs with tech in console and poor launch window titles. Vita had a brilliant launch regarding software, is sold for a small loss at most, and has very simple architecure. We know PS4 will have  simple architecture and uses "off the shelf" parts, so costs won't be wild. 

The rumour about the PS4 controller states it will have a touch pad, similar to Vita's back touch pad but smaller and replaces the PS button, start and select. Here's a mockup:

That does not look like what the Wii U does much at all.

Just gotta remind myself to answer the both of ya above tomorrow!

I heard vgleaks said 720 will use GCN1?if so they're wrong then,the GPU in 720 is not released yet

Detailed information about Durango GPU.

See more: http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-gpu/

Nothing new of course.

So they think it will be GCN1.0/HD7000 series huh,well,don't care this site anymore

Btw wtf is this copy&paste level document

Do you really just dismiss stuff just because it doesn't fit your desired preference?

You've been dismissing HD7000 series all this time. What would you like the next gen consoles to have instead? Let's look at realistic options:

1) HD8000 series and GTX700 series are rumored to be delayed to Q4 2013 (http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/16480-nasta-generation-geforce-och-radeon-skjuts-upp-till-q4-2013). This news is very recent on the PC. We almost know with 99% certainty NV isn't going to be in next generation consoles anyway. If this rumor is true, that basically rules out HD8000 or GTX700 series in PS4/Xbox 720 if they are to launch by Q4 2013.

2) Even if we considered NV for a second, lets go back to HD7000 vs. GTX600 series because these are the latest right now. It's reasonable to believe mobile GPUs are more suitable for consoles due to their lower power consumption. NV charges $350+ more for a GTX680M card that's only 5% faster than HD7970M:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Update-Radeon-HD-7970M-vs-GeForce-GTX-680M.87744.0.html

Therefore, with HD7000 series you would get superior price/performance, and also class leading OpenCL/OpenGL and DirectCompute capabilities over GTX600 cards. That means for every $ spent on the GPU, you'll get a faster card than going with NV's GTX600 series. Since price/performance is one of the key metrics for next generation consoles for trying to keep consoles prices down due to increased competition from people buying $1-5 games on smartphones/tablets, etc., going with GTX600 cards would have resulted in a slower console or a much more expensive one for little benefit. Going with HD8000 series may not have been an option if PS4/Xbox 720's manufacturing have to start by Q2 2013 for Q4 2013 launch. Also, HD8000 series is a minor update to HD7000. GCN 2.0 will not be a revolutionary architecture over GCN1.0. The next big graphical revolution on AMD/NV side will only happen with 20nm Volcanic Islands (AMD) and 20nm Maxwell (NV), but those GPUs are not slated until 2014, most likely 2nd half of 2014 too.

Also, even if they used GCN 2.0 parts, because HD8000 series would be newer, those chips would cost more than HD7000 ones. It's a lot better to have a mid-range or mid-high-end HD7000 card than a low-end HD8000 one. The comparison between HD7000 and HD8000 will again come down to price/performance and HD7000 probably would win here because Sony/MS would get a better deal on slightly older tech. 

Didnt a Ubisoft developer llherre say that both the Durango and Orbis will be a wash in power?