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Forums - General Discussion - Muslim Woman Strangles and Stabbs Daughter 40 Times to Exorcise Her

PullusPardus said:

disgusting, this is very close to me personally,  that i actually knew people like that when i was younger, from saudia arabia who cover faces like that of any picture, because they think satan hides in there, they also refuse to watch tv , and refuse to buy their kid any toys that have a human head on it.

it still puzzles me the way people like that think, even though i was a kid, i still thought they're nutcases, and i sneakily let their poor child play with my consoles back then, the poor kid compared to me at the same age, felt like he was living in a cave (because basically it is), not knowing anything about the world, when i talked to him, he was like a puppy, very easy to manipulate, doesn't know anything about anything, i now wonder what kind of a psychopath that kid turned out to be, from all that shit he went through i can imagine him blowing himself up or getting killed like that child from the article.

even though i had a very rough childhood with no good memories with my family, i'm very grateful i wasn't in the same place as that kid.


Wow that sounds insane and is definitely no laughing matter, I'm sure you must be rather curious of how that kid turned out to be or if he's still alive for that matter.



           

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Before everybody goes all crazy on this, Let me clear this for all of you,

The woman is Pshycologically Ill. We do not know if she was a born muslim or not, because the article says she became obsessed with islam after going to egypt.

 

Now, The procedure for "exorcism" in islam is nothing but only reading verses on your own , or someone who has strong believe to just read it out infront of the person whos suffering. That is all. NOthing more than that is actually in Islam.

However, many muslims, practise their own variations, which is nothing more than not following islam.

There is no such concept of sacrifisinng one for the love of God conncept.

 

Please watch this Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qxke8niolp4

 

There asre some interesting videos from him Dr. Zakir Naik(many on youtube are dubbed over too, just to show tht he gives hate speech etc so be careful). One of the videos i recommend watching his is, Similarities between Christianity and Islam.

 

Hope that helps..



darkprince said:

Before everybody goes all crazy on this, Let me clear this for all of you,

The woman is Pshycologically Ill. We do not know if she was a born muslim or not, because the article says she became obsessed with islam after going to egypt.

 

Now, The procedure for "exorcism" in islam is nothing but only reading verses on your own , or someone who has strong believe to just read it out infront of the person whos suffering. That is all. NOthing more than that is actually in Islam.

However, many muslims, practise their own variations, which is nothing more than not following islam.

There is no such concept of sacrifisinng one for the love of God conncept.

 

Please watch this Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qxke8niolp4

 

There asre some interesting videos from him Dr. Zakir Naik(many on youtube are dubbed over too, just to show tht he gives hate speech etc so be careful). One of the videos i recommend watching his is, Similarities between Christianity and Islam.

 

Hope that helps..


No way.  I mean if I say i'm going on a murderous rampage to help the poor.  It's clear that helping the poor causes deaths and therefore we should give up all attempts to help the poor so our children can be safe at night.

Blaming people for a crime rather then vague ideologies that aren't even being followed.

What are you.. a communist?



@Kasz2165
Sorry I am having trouble understanding you.
How is helping the poor causing deaths? And how come helping them would be harmful for the children :S
...One is always poorer than the person who's richer than him

You can blame people who follow vague ideas, and blame people for thinking up vague ideas. You can blame people for labeling an idea as "Vague" without even knowing or trying to understand about it. In this case, religion had no association, mental illness can effect anyone, regardless of their religion.

What are you... drunk :P?



spurgeonryan said:
So this is something that happens all the time in Muslim culture? Did not know that they did exorcisms. Horrible!


What a distasteful post coming from you of all people. I never took you as the type to make broad generalizations...

as mentioned, exorcisms are practiced in other ... ya know what, I don't have to explain this. I never do. When people are set to hate, there's no changing their mind. Plus you're doing this for the post count so you probably don't even remember half the posts you make anyway.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

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Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
huaxiong90 said:

Is this really her idea of an exorcism?

Man, that's just fucking disgusting...the exorcism I actually witnessed does not even relate to what I'm reading here.

How was the 'legit' exorcism you were part of like?

There was an 'exorcism' over here in Romania a couple of years ago, conducted by a monk and 2 nuns on another nun (which wasn't possesed by the devil, as there is no such thing, but simply schitzophrenic), and it involved torture and starvation, the 'possesed' nun eventually dying.


A traditional execution simply involves tieing someone down so they don't hurt themselves(People being exorcised for some unkown reason tend to go into violent spasms.) and praying over them while sprinkling them with holy water until they appear calm.

 

Could it be maybe the same reaction any person would have when questionalbe individuals tie them down? And what if the possesed person is insane? No ammount (like the nun from my story). Keeping them tied down and starving them to death is the way to go, no?

No.

Like I said, isn't really medically explained.

The majority of exorcisms are done at the persons behest by people who were close to them their entire lives.  There really aren't many, if any cases of exorcisms caused against peoples will.

In general, the scientific opinion is that it's one of three things.

1)  I actually forget the scientific name is for it.  Though in general it's described as "Believers effect".  Like how most evangelists spasm when a preist channels into them the word of the lord or whatever they're doing.

It's thought the "Demon possession" might have been born out of this.  IE they made some mistakes that go against what they believe, and rationalized it as being "out of their control" and a demon made them do it.... much how some people rationalize their inability to give up addictions or other bad habits they have.  Demon essentially replaced addiction.  These people are represented by those that have exorcisms, then grow up normal people  of that faith.  (Of which, there actually are quite a bit.)

This might actually be a reason why there are a number of successful exorcisms.   The person suddenly feels "freed" of the demon, tricking them into giving up the negative things they were doing because they suddenly feel like they have way more power and self control. 

That and other "Placebo" like effects anyway, since exorcisms actually are known to stop pain and the like too for some people.

 

2) People trying to get out of trouble.  Like the above, but exorcism is seen as a way to get out of disapointment from others/punishment/hard feelings.  Considering the  great lengths you go through, this is likely expected to be the smallest group.  In general these guys are usually people who are represented by children, who grow up and move away, people who get "possessed"  twice and refuse exoricsm the second time, or just are often "Possessed".Sometimes they can transition into group 1.

3) Remanifestation of the disorder coincidentally during exorcism.  The likelyness of this really depends on the disorder.  The group of people effected like this are probably between groups 1 & 3 and likely are the "failed" cases of exoricisms.

People generally like to blame Dissociative Identity Disorger for the majority of exorcisms... but ironically if you ask most psychologists they would say Dissociative Identity Disoder doesn't really exist or if it does... is extremely rare as there seems to be totally regional.  (IE Split personality disorder/ what most people incorrectly define as schitzophrenia.)  Amusingly DID is kinda like Psychologys version of Demonic possession. 

In 1944, there were 76 cases of DID ever... vs like... I don't even know the number now, but lets just say it's increased by over 100,000% in occurence.  Well, only in the countries that believe in DID.  Just how demon possession generally only happens in countries that believe in it.  Though at least exorcist believers have an excuse for it.  (IE: Targeting the faithful.) 

It's actually considered to not be that high because Exorcism success rates are actually usually pretty high... espiecally in the Catholic Church which mandates that psychiatric evaluations must happen before any exorcism so as to avoid the mentally ill being exorcised.

 

None of those really explains Huaxiong's case.  Most likely people would see it as a case 1 and that the decline in "spirtuality" was mostly internalized and slow leading to an eventually loss in belief which was then put on a demon.

 

I don't think it's possible to give an explanation based on what he reported.

and I also wanted to ask, how is exorcism done by a priest? does the bible discuss exorcism and its methods? and what about jewish exorcism, does the jewish bible or whatever it's called explain it?

All exorcists from different religions claim that they succeed in many cases, so do their "patients". Islamic exorcists succeed in chasing the demons out by employing different methods that are carried on while Quran is being read. and What do priests do? do they use the cross and the holy water to tell the demon to leave by the name of Jesus? and from I understand  Hindu's exorcism is even more complicated..

How can all of these methods "actually" work? If I was a Muslim who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way to kick the demons out is Quran. If I was a Christian who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way is reading the bible or whatever the church does.. but not Quran.

 

Last question, what do you mean by "(Targeting the faithful.)"?



I also forgot to mention that some of the exorcists here ask for money to do the work and people PAY them.

A disgusting joke really.



darkprince said:
@Kasz2165
Sorry I am having trouble understanding you.
How is helping the poor causing deaths? And how come helping them would be harmful for the children :S
...One is always poorer than the person who's richer than him

You can blame people who follow vague ideas, and blame people for thinking up vague ideas. You can blame people for labeling an idea as "Vague" without even knowing or trying to understand about it. In this case, religion had no association, mental illness can effect anyone, regardless of their religion.

What are you... drunk :P?

It was sarcasm.



sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
huaxiong90 said:

Is this really her idea of an exorcism?

Man, that's just fucking disgusting...the exorcism I actually witnessed does not even relate to what I'm reading here.

How was the 'legit' exorcism you were part of like?

There was an 'exorcism' over here in Romania a couple of years ago, conducted by a monk and 2 nuns on another nun (which wasn't possesed by the devil, as there is no such thing, but simply schitzophrenic), and it involved torture and starvation, the 'possesed' nun eventually dying.


A traditional execution simply involves tieing someone down so they don't hurt themselves(People being exorcised for some unkown reason tend to go into violent spasms.) and praying over them while sprinkling them with holy water until they appear calm.

 

Could it be maybe the same reaction any person would have when questionalbe individuals tie them down? And what if the possesed person is insane? No ammount (like the nun from my story). Keeping them tied down and starving them to death is the way to go, no?

No.

Like I said, isn't really medically explained.

The majority of exorcisms are done at the persons behest by people who were close to them their entire lives.  There really aren't many, if any cases of exorcisms caused against peoples will.

In general, the scientific opinion is that it's one of three things.

1)  I actually forget the scientific name is for it.  Though in general it's described as "Believers effect".  Like how most evangelists spasm when a preist channels into them the word of the lord or whatever they're doing.

It's thought the "Demon possession" might have been born out of this.  IE they made some mistakes that go against what they believe, and rationalized it as being "out of their control" and a demon made them do it.... much how some people rationalize their inability to give up addictions or other bad habits they have.  Demon essentially replaced addiction.  These people are represented by those that have exorcisms, then grow up normal people  of that faith.  (Of which, there actually are quite a bit.)

This might actually be a reason why there are a number of successful exorcisms.   The person suddenly feels "freed" of the demon, tricking them into giving up the negative things they were doing because they suddenly feel like they have way more power and self control. 

That and other "Placebo" like effects anyway, since exorcisms actually are known to stop pain and the like too for some people.

 

2) People trying to get out of trouble.  Like the above, but exorcism is seen as a way to get out of disapointment from others/punishment/hard feelings.  Considering the  great lengths you go through, this is likely expected to be the smallest group.  In general these guys are usually people who are represented by children, who grow up and move away, people who get "possessed"  twice and refuse exoricsm the second time, or just are often "Possessed".Sometimes they can transition into group 1.

3) Remanifestation of the disorder coincidentally during exorcism.  The likelyness of this really depends on the disorder.  The group of people effected like this are probably between groups 1 & 3 and likely are the "failed" cases of exoricisms.

People generally like to blame Dissociative Identity Disorger for the majority of exorcisms... but ironically if you ask most psychologists they would say Dissociative Identity Disoder doesn't really exist or if it does... is extremely rare as there seems to be totally regional.  (IE Split personality disorder/ what most people incorrectly define as schitzophrenia.)  Amusingly DID is kinda like Psychologys version of Demonic possession. 

In 1944, there were 76 cases of DID ever... vs like... I don't even know the number now, but lets just say it's increased by over 100,000% in occurence.  Well, only in the countries that believe in DID.  Just how demon possession generally only happens in countries that believe in it.  Though at least exorcist believers have an excuse for it.  (IE: Targeting the faithful.) 

It's actually considered to not be that high because Exorcism success rates are actually usually pretty high... espiecally in the Catholic Church which mandates that psychiatric evaluations must happen before any exorcism so as to avoid the mentally ill being exorcised.

 

None of those really explains Huaxiong's case.  Most likely people would see it as a case 1 and that the decline in "spirtuality" was mostly internalized and slow leading to an eventually loss in belief which was then put on a demon.

 

I don't think it's possible to give an explanation based on what he reported.

and I also wanted to ask, how is exorcism done by a priest? does the bible discuss exorcism and its methods? and what about jewish exorcism, does the jewish bible or whatever it's called explain it?

All exorcists from different religions claim that they succeed in many cases, so do their "patients". Islamic exorcists succeed in chasing the demons out by employing different methods that are carried on while Quran is being read. and What do priests do? do they use the cross and the holy water to tell the demon to leave by the name of Jesus? and from I understand  Hindu's exorcism is even more complicated..

How can all of these methods "actually" work? If I was a Muslim who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way to kick the demons out is Quran. If I was a Christian who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way is reading the bible or whatever the church does.. but not Quran.

 

Last question, what do you mean by "(Targeting the faithful.)"?


1) Exorcism by a priest, you just hold someone down while reading from the bible and commanding the demon to leave in the name of god.  As for where the practice comes from I can't really say.  I'd guess this would answer part of your second question though, in that it predates the "Split" therefore most likely all abrhamic religions can drive out demons in the name of god.  In general the abrahamic religions are a lot "nicer" too each other, usually thinking there are some exceptions for each other. 

2) I explained how they "work".    It's a lot like the Placebo effect.  Convince people that by "taking the demon" out of them, that their pain will lessen/their "evil" actions will be less tempting/ Something else.

It often works... at least for the intermediate

3)  A relgious group can claim that demonic possessions only happen where the religion is, because the Devil is only intersted in corrupting the faithfull.  Verus some modern psychologists who have no explination for why DID really only happens with any large numbers in the United Staes.  (Though is increasingly diagnosed in europe.)

Truth is, Dissossiative Identity Disorder is likely CAUSED by therapists who unintentionally coach them to treat each emotion or set of feelings as a "different personality."



superchunk said:
So her family recognized her mental state was in trouble yet she remained out of a hospital in custody of her child? Sounds like the family failed that child.

About 10yrs ago my wife's brother was acting really crazy... after two days we put him into a mental hospital. He was schizophrenic and took 8mos of therapy and drugs for him to stabilize. He still isn't 100%, but he's safe and functional.

Btw, I hate how the OP puts so much on the religion... obviously this has nothing to do with that.

It has a lot to do with religion.  The girl as schizo but religion said something else.

My mother in law is schizo and before we got the the right drug to stablize her, my sis in law thought prayers and such will help her.  (we are Christians).  Brought tension between me and her.  I think she is a religious nut!  there's more to the story, but let's just say, I can't stand her.  (sis in law)  

Religion divides (a lot of times) and even kills.  In my life time (I'm old), I've heard of 2 deaths due exorcism in my community of Christians.