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Kasz216 on 04 October 2011
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sad.man.loves.vgc said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
huaxiong90 said:

Is this really her idea of an exorcism?

Man, that's just fucking disgusting...the exorcism I actually witnessed does not even relate to what I'm reading here.

How was the 'legit' exorcism you were part of like?

There was an 'exorcism' over here in Romania a couple of years ago, conducted by a monk and 2 nuns on another nun (which wasn't possesed by the devil, as there is no such thing, but simply schitzophrenic), and it involved torture and starvation, the 'possesed' nun eventually dying.


A traditional execution simply involves tieing someone down so they don't hurt themselves(People being exorcised for some unkown reason tend to go into violent spasms.) and praying over them while sprinkling them with holy water until they appear calm.

 

Could it be maybe the same reaction any person would have when questionalbe individuals tie them down? And what if the possesed person is insane? No ammount (like the nun from my story). Keeping them tied down and starving them to death is the way to go, no?

No.

Like I said, isn't really medically explained.

The majority of exorcisms are done at the persons behest by people who were close to them their entire lives.  There really aren't many, if any cases of exorcisms caused against peoples will.

In general, the scientific opinion is that it's one of three things.

1)  I actually forget the scientific name is for it.  Though in general it's described as "Believers effect".  Like how most evangelists spasm when a preist channels into them the word of the lord or whatever they're doing.

It's thought the "Demon possession" might have been born out of this.  IE they made some mistakes that go against what they believe, and rationalized it as being "out of their control" and a demon made them do it.... much how some people rationalize their inability to give up addictions or other bad habits they have.  Demon essentially replaced addiction.  These people are represented by those that have exorcisms, then grow up normal people  of that faith.  (Of which, there actually are quite a bit.)

This might actually be a reason why there are a number of successful exorcisms.   The person suddenly feels "freed" of the demon, tricking them into giving up the negative things they were doing because they suddenly feel like they have way more power and self control. 

That and other "Placebo" like effects anyway, since exorcisms actually are known to stop pain and the like too for some people.

 

2) People trying to get out of trouble.  Like the above, but exorcism is seen as a way to get out of disapointment from others/punishment/hard feelings.  Considering the  great lengths you go through, this is likely expected to be the smallest group.  In general these guys are usually people who are represented by children, who grow up and move away, people who get "possessed"  twice and refuse exoricsm the second time, or just are often "Possessed".Sometimes they can transition into group 1.

3) Remanifestation of the disorder coincidentally during exorcism.  The likelyness of this really depends on the disorder.  The group of people effected like this are probably between groups 1 & 3 and likely are the "failed" cases of exoricisms.

People generally like to blame Dissociative Identity Disorger for the majority of exorcisms... but ironically if you ask most psychologists they would say Dissociative Identity Disoder doesn't really exist or if it does... is extremely rare as there seems to be totally regional.  (IE Split personality disorder/ what most people incorrectly define as schitzophrenia.)  Amusingly DID is kinda like Psychologys version of Demonic possession. 

In 1944, there were 76 cases of DID ever... vs like... I don't even know the number now, but lets just say it's increased by over 100,000% in occurence.  Well, only in the countries that believe in DID.  Just how demon possession generally only happens in countries that believe in it.  Though at least exorcist believers have an excuse for it.  (IE: Targeting the faithful.) 

It's actually considered to not be that high because Exorcism success rates are actually usually pretty high... espiecally in the Catholic Church which mandates that psychiatric evaluations must happen before any exorcism so as to avoid the mentally ill being exorcised.

 

None of those really explains Huaxiong's case.  Most likely people would see it as a case 1 and that the decline in "spirtuality" was mostly internalized and slow leading to an eventually loss in belief which was then put on a demon.

 

I don't think it's possible to give an explanation based on what he reported.

and I also wanted to ask, how is exorcism done by a priest? does the bible discuss exorcism and its methods? and what about jewish exorcism, does the jewish bible or whatever it's called explain it?

All exorcists from different religions claim that they succeed in many cases, so do their "patients". Islamic exorcists succeed in chasing the demons out by employing different methods that are carried on while Quran is being read. and What do priests do? do they use the cross and the holy water to tell the demon to leave by the name of Jesus? and from I understand  Hindu's exorcism is even more complicated..

How can all of these methods "actually" work? If I was a Muslim who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way to kick the demons out is Quran. If I was a Christian who believed in exorcism then I would have to believe that the only way is reading the bible or whatever the church does.. but not Quran.

 

Last question, what do you mean by "(Targeting the faithful.)"?


1) Exorcism by a priest, you just hold someone down while reading from the bible and commanding the demon to leave in the name of god.  As for where the practice comes from I can't really say.  I'd guess this would answer part of your second question though, in that it predates the "Split" therefore most likely all abrhamic religions can drive out demons in the name of god.  In general the abrahamic religions are a lot "nicer" too each other, usually thinking there are some exceptions for each other. 

2) I explained how they "work".    It's a lot like the Placebo effect.  Convince people that by "taking the demon" out of them, that their pain will lessen/their "evil" actions will be less tempting/ Something else.

It often works... at least for the intermediate

3)  A relgious group can claim that demonic possessions only happen where the religion is, because the Devil is only intersted in corrupting the faithfull.  Verus some modern psychologists who have no explination for why DID really only happens with any large numbers in the United Staes.  (Though is increasingly diagnosed in europe.)

Truth is, Dissossiative Identity Disorder is likely CAUSED by therapists who unintentionally coach them to treat each emotion or set of feelings as a "different personality."